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Problems with water combat

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by BlueLuigi, Jun 16, 2012.

Mods: Hella, Lieber, ParaLogia
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  1. BlueLuigi

    BlueLuigi :^) Forum Moderator Donator Tester

    Messages:
    3,620
    Arrows do skip, be closer to water level when shooting.
     
    BlueLuigi, Jun 20, 2012
    #41
  2. Rayne

    Rayne ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ Administrator Global Moderator Forum Moderator Tester

    Messages:
    1,916
    again with the wanting archers to be end-all badasses.
    Archers SHOULDN'T be in the water, they should be hanging back helping their team with ranged combat.
    Once your builders build a decent bridge or something you should then move up, if you fall into the water that's your fault, you messed up.

    //edit: fyi archers can easily get out of water via arrow climbing and have 7 bubbles of air, I think they can do enough.
     
    Rayne, Jun 20, 2012
    #42
  3. restbench

    restbench Alpha Recruiter Donator

    Messages:
    32
    i think that all of the stuff you guys have said is true and that they should not let you build quarters underwater to heal
     
    restbench, Jun 20, 2012
    #43
  4. BlueLuigi

    BlueLuigi :^) Forum Moderator Donator Tester

    Messages:
    3,620
    We were I thought going to get a 'bubble workshop' or some such where you can buy extra breath, it might not tie in the lore/timeline but it'll work for now with balance and be better than quarters. They tried quarters not working under water, had a LOT of problems with that.
     
    BlueLuigi, Jun 21, 2012
    #44
  5. saniblues

    saniblues KAG Guard Tester

    Messages:
    418
    MM, I left a log on your server about something I refer to as The Developer's Blind Spot. It's a special part of the ocean where new features clash with established mechanics.
     
    saniblues, Jun 21, 2012
    #45
    Ej and BlueLuigi like this.
  6. GreenRock

    GreenRock Base Burner

    Messages:
    347
    I thought water was designed as a sort of death mechanism. As in, it should be built over and avoided at all costs. Archers are agile little buggers so that would explain why they can climb trees, hold breath longer. I don't think knight combat should even be argued over. It's basically fighting each other while falling off a big cliff. Both of you will die anyway :/
     
    GreenRock, Jun 22, 2012
    #46
  7. timmiolen

    timmiolen Bison Rider
    1. Delta Force - Delta

    Messages:
    99
    if you are knight its normal you can swim on the water beckose knights hawe heavy armor
     
    timmiolen, Jun 22, 2012
    #47
  8. BlueLuigi

    BlueLuigi :^) Forum Moderator Donator Tester

    Messages:
    3,620
    You can't build over it because of support mechanic, so that really can't be a thing.
     
    BlueLuigi, Jun 22, 2012
    #48
  9. Gofio

    Gofio Gunwobbler x3

    Messages:
    1,090
    You are talking nonsense.
    The reason that knights are so goddamn weak in the water is already explained.
    Geti said that the water was meant to force people to play builder and help their knights.
    unfortunately, even the pro's simply wont understand this, and dive in the water like a cute little dolphin.
    One with holes and arrows in it, that is.
    There are two unbelievably easy ways to get around the water.
    By making teambridges, or by using catapults. (there are more tree's on the newer maps, so dont say it costs too much wood)
    This is also a brilliant way to "return" the cata's to KAG.
    (yes, they werent taken out, but no-one used them anymore)
    So what if you dont like swimming?
    This gives noob archers a chance at hitting a knight.
    (although I gotta agree: archers need some kind of a nerf. how about making the gray arrows useless, and the underwater arrows half a heart less dangerous? reduces arrowspam, and waterarrowspam)

    uhm... ever thought of making vertical beams in the water? -.-

    but THIS is some good idea.
    but a 'bubble' is a little SF like.
    maybe a barrel that can be used as a helmet, or as a boat?
     
    Gofio, Jun 22, 2012
    #49
  10. AnRK

    AnRK Shark Slayer

    Messages:
    641
    Wow, with blues non-existant knowledge of this game I bet he'd never thought of ANY of that... Building over water is fine if you don't get peppered by archers in the process of making support for building, which is rare.
     
    AnRK, Jun 22, 2012
    #50
  11. Gofio

    Gofio Gunwobbler x3

    Messages:
    1,090
    thats why you should do those things before the enemies do it.
    OR, you just take one, two, knights with you, and let them take turns in protecting the builder.
    THAT is what the devs wanted: TEAMWORK!
     
    Gofio, Jun 22, 2012
    #51
  12. Rayne

    Rayne ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ Administrator Global Moderator Forum Moderator Tester

    Messages:
    1,916
    I lol'd
    You sir, are the one talking nonsense.

    When you're drowning it's almost impossible to get out of the water as knight, you'll struggle to try and get up a half of a block, but it just won't let you, and guess what? knights drown fucking fast. Builders can build their way out, and archers can arrow climb out, knight can't do shit.

    and the rest of the shit you said was something a casual who's only been playing 2 day could figure out, i don't even know why you brought it up.
     
    Rayne, Jun 22, 2012
    #52
  13. Gofio

    Gofio Gunwobbler x3

    Messages:
    1,090
    ehm... sorry, but I think I havent made it clear enough:
    the knights should not even be TOUCHING the water.
    also, I have been playing for longer than two days.
    last thing I'll say now: I'm used to the fact that people think Im talking nonsense, but when Im actually talking nonsense, people take it for truth. so when you think Im talking nonsense, try to find out the truth for yourself. (yup, that was nonsense)
     
    Gofio, Jun 22, 2012
    #53
  14. Rayne

    Rayne ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ Administrator Global Moderator Forum Moderator Tester

    Messages:
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    Oh so since they shouldn't touch it, they shouldn't be able to get out?

    that's the most retarded shit I've ever heard, archers aren't supposed to be touching the water either, yet they are god tier at getting out of it.
     
    Rayne, Jun 22, 2012
    #54
  15. BlueLuigi

    BlueLuigi :^) Forum Moderator Donator Tester

    Messages:
    3,620
    Gofio you might want to read up on your stuff, please keep in mind that the people you are talking to helped test it and in doing so talked with and played with the people who were making it. :p

    That said, going and building supports is a bitch, on most maps set to default settings you will have to do at least one or two supports where it takes 2 breathes if you want to make it up without dying, some of which you simply can't make it up without taking some damage, you can get maybe 10 tiles deep with building up if you want to get up with taking no damage.

    The problem is mostly that after you've beached it becomes a big problem because you've gotten there once, but a single tower (not even a tower a 5 tall fucking stone linepiece near the edge) with an archer up top can rape your face in. Water is denied super easily because of it's 'level' mechanic and shooting people in the water or slashing into them is so easy that an active defense is also godly if necessary.

    Basically defense is super easy in this way, except now it's even natural, all problems people had with buildings being OP are magnified.

    If there was a problem for needing people to stalemate in an area and use nothing but archers I was unaware as that's what 80% of lives servers turn into anyway :TDM not CTF. Water can easily double an archers KDR too, I can get a 5:1 easy as hell with water and I'm normally a 1:1-2:1 archer (I suck at it).


    e: Knights aren't the only one with problems beaching, archers can't really shoot out of water and builders have a hard time getting out because archers can basically rain hell down on them, termiting, entombing, whatever you want to call it is basically the usual solution unless you get lucky, only unlimited servers usually see 2 skilled teams with one beaching the other, ticket servers run out of tickets before it ever happens as it can take up to an hour.
     
    BlueLuigi, Jun 22, 2012
    #55
    Gofio likes this.
  16. Gofio

    Gofio Gunwobbler x3

    Messages:
    1,090
    I havent said a thing about knights not being able to get out of the water.
    therefore, you should not say I disagree with BL on that part of his OP.
    of course there are bugs and problems with a new update,
    but as you should have seen, the devs have fixed every single bug, even if it wasnt mentioned by us.
    a bug SO obvious as being unable to get out of the water,
    was too ovious to be mentioned. sorry if that is crazy or something, but thats the way I see it.
     
    Gofio, Jun 22, 2012
    #56
  17. Rayne

    Rayne ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ Administrator Global Moderator Forum Moderator Tester

    Messages:
    1,916
    holy shit how to imply

    as BL said go check up on your shit, you clearly don't know what you're talking about, and dude, I'm a tester, you really don't need to tell me about bugs. I already know.
     
    Rayne, Jun 22, 2012
    #57
  18. Rainbows

    Rainbows KAG Guard Forum Moderator Tester
    1. The Young Blood Collective - [YB]

    Messages:
    985
    You build the bridge
    You get shot
    A helpful knight shields you
    You get cata'd
    The catapult spontaneously combusts, the knight helps you again
    You need to build more supports
    You jump in the water to build supports
    You drown
    You nearly complete the support
    Suicidal enemy knight kills you
    You finish the support
    You get shot before you connect it to the bridge
    You finish the bridge
    The enemy has created a doom castle waiting for you
     
    Rainbows, Jun 22, 2012
    #58
    Ej likes this.
  19. saniblues

    saniblues KAG Guard Tester

    Messages:
    418

    >diving into the water
    >not skipping over it because that is in fact a thing that knights and bombs can do

    forum confirmed for phleb tier
     
    saniblues, Jun 22, 2012
    #59
  20. Rayne

    Rayne ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ Administrator Global Moderator Forum Moderator Tester

    Messages:
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    oh, because that totally helps, thanks for telling us how to get 2 blocks farther.
     
    Rayne, Jun 22, 2012
    #60
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