Class Bawww/Argument thread

I just snipped everything I wont comment on.

I think snipers are not that bad, they are defending the way it should be done, by shooting at people, while maintaining their health.
dont tell me a smart knight wont heal if he's near death, and an archer is near death after a single hit.

as I already said, if arrows damage would depend on the distance they traveled, (long range, little damage, short range, high damage)
aside from the power you use to fire them, the archers would be more balanced.

being slower with lower health would actually be very unfair, because archers start with lower health than the others, while they actually should be faster than the others. therefore, Dr Z is right: this is bullshit.

 

The thing about snipers in games is that they either involve a counter-class system, which KAG does not use (it uses a play style-class system). Is throws it off, and makes it the only way to deal with far off archers is to play an archer. That ruins the play style-class system. It has to be that every class can have equal chances of killing each other. Also, because KAG is 2D, there is no way for another class to get close to an archer behind a tower. It's just that archer's extreme range doesn't really work in KAGs most-melee context. That's why I think that they should have shorter range, and leave the long range stuff to the expense siege constructions.

 

Well if they plan on working with classes, items blah blah, they may make it so you could either choose between short bow and long bow. Short = more power, less range Long = more range, less power. I dunno just an idea that they may do something like that. Though I am sure they have their own plans on balancing classes, they probably have other things to do which need doing before class balancing.

 

i like tunneling.. nothing beats that damn rush of being behind the enemy lines only blocks away from the flag... and then grabbing it and pulling a win when all hope is lost!
may be boring but hey your dying and bit by bit your helping your team out and you know smart teams members only a few team mates, the rest of the team should press on or stall

 

that only works when the enemy has a base up front, and eveyone helps to fight the rest of your team.
but if thats the case, it works really good.

 

Tunneling is a hit-miss move. It basically relies on whether your team is a collective dumbass and can't work together or not. And even then, it's not easy to pull off, because it mashes all the units together in a small area, killing off tickets by the dozen. You have to pull off the flag real quick or you'll run out of tickets.

 

as i said only a few members do it ...
well omg if the whole team is doing it WOW tunneling rush
which never ever happens

 

Not really a suggestion so I figured it's an overall class idea- I've been playing the RP server and the race "elves" have to warriors, and can't build stone- so obviously they get raped by anyone with warriors. Why you ask, because warriors are crazy OP. What's my argument for that? Let's break this down.

Warriors-
Immortality with shield, can walk THROUGH spikes with shield pointed forward.
Can high jump
Can glide
Can use bombs
Can use KEGS
can block arrows until the end of time
can chop trees dropping archers, who can't kill them anyways
do a crap-load of damage
Can destroy dirt, wood, spikes

Archers-
can climb trees
can shoot arrows
can climb arrows
can destroy dirt

Builders-
Can build
Can Destroy

There seems to be balance for archers, balance for builders, and the DEVS dropped everything else into one class- the only major drawback of warrior (or balance thing) is they can't destroy stone- but they can just demo barrage the hell outta it.
It makes no sense, it would be better if another class was added to try and balance the warrior, or the classes got some of their junk- for instance archers can glide, 1 arrow breaks the warriors shield block- something along those lines as it stands 1 warrior = 2-3 archers and a whole hell of a lot of builders.
</br>--- merged: Aug 19, 2012 1:45 PM ---</br>
Can't edit my post, but I meant to say I've been playing RP server and the race 'elves' cannot use warriors, and can't build stone- thus they get pwnstomped by any 'race' with warriors.

 

A fully charged arrow will break a knights shield. 2 archers that can sync their shots can kill knights that are just shielding. Any class can use kegs. And a good builder can own an average knight. Hell, last build basically any builder could own any knight.

EDIT: Then tell the owners of the rp server about the inbalance on the server thread.

 

Merged with Country's baww thread for peace of our tired minds.

Also I would recommend reading through it and then reading through what you posted. I'm pretty sure you hadn't bothered yourself with checking the newest topic with balance issues.

 

doesn't matter: archers are still slimey scumbags.
only things that i think would be knight corpses hurt archers and archers shouldn't let go of arrow when being hit

 

Sooo... If you pull the string, have an arrow loaded, and you accidentally release because someone hits you, the arrow dissapears? BULLSHIT
Also, there's a good reason they are "slimy scumbags".
As UnclearImage said, they have nearly zero perks, so they have to be sneaky.
One knight can hold back two, maybe three archers, if they dont sync their shots.
The only reason they have two hearts, is because one-hit-kills would be too underpowered.
If an archer screws up when fighting a knight, and gets closer than ten blocks, he has no chance of surviving.

my personal opinion, is that it should be harder for the ones that camp in towers,
and shoot like idiots, wasting entire rainforests worth of wood.
maybe make arrows more expensive? one coin one arrow is cheap.
fifteen coins ten arrows would be better, IMO.

(I didnt even get what you meant with "corpses hurt archers". zombies?)

 

falling corpses used to do damage now they dont...

 

I'm not sure that making arrows more expensive would make too much of a difference. It's really easy to just harvest arrows from a tree, and making them harder to get might actually encourage archers to camp in towers and spam, because it's much safer.

A big problem with archers is that they need less effort to effectively use teamwork then knights. It's really easy to sync up shots, any player who has been playing archer for a bit can catch on. Knights are much more independent, they may rush ahead head-first, crawl with their shield up, bomb jump, tunnel, or, sometimes, actually try to shield up with each other defending themselves from double archers. Archers just go out and shoot or camp in towers and shoot. If archers don't camp in towers, knights actually have a chance if they have a bomb, because a well time bomb can get the archer to cease fire and dodge if not kill them, giving the knight precious time to advance. Not so easy with towers, you have to get really close and then pull off a really good throw just to kill one archer or builder.

I'd suggest shortening archers range, so we have less sniper-archers that knights cant even see, and maybe making it harder to pull off a stun. It's hard to pull off a really good bomb throw, but it's piss-easy to do a stun. It's much easier for a couple of archers to kill a knight then for a couple of knights to kill an archer.

 

archer now a days are able to master teamwork more effectively then knights . knights still have a way to go.
to do list :
master shield + jump bot ladder
pick up bombs mid air and throw them back
also i feel archer should do damage base on rl physics at max peak arrows do 0 damage and then have a maximum damage at the end of the curve

 

Knights with bombs always win over archers. Period.

The difference lies always in the player - getting hit by an arrow will always hurt a person.

 

Yep, except for when archers are out of range of a bomb.

Don't get me wrong staying out of the way of a bomb is one of the best things you can do, but bombs cant destroy archers if they are away from it's maximum throwing distance horizontally and vertically.

As a knight covering horizontal distance is not hard, in fact it's a bit to easy and bomb jumping makes it even easier, so archers on the ground are extremely weak to knights and bombs by themselves.

But the real problem as a knight is attacking vertically, throwing a bomb upwards only goes so far and bomb jumping can also fail pretty hard depending on where you jump from. And when those two options fail it feels pretty useless to be a knight class, now I would be okay with that, changing classes to beat something is a great idea.

But it's never like that, the archers who have a vertical advantage have other advantages as well like healing shops and knights blocking archers firing at them.
This is when archers become ridiculously overpowered and hard to counter without tunneling which can be the biggest hit and miss tactic.

tl;dr Knights will win over archers horizontally if they don't have much support, Archers are extremely powerful against everything if they have a large height advantage.

 

Am I the only person who sees people dodge bombs? Look, unless the bomb is thrown very well, the archer can dodge it, getting away with just a heart of damage. Playing archer is about keeping your distance so you can flee if a bomb is in your face. The problem is that it goes to an extreme; archers can get so far away they're untouchable.

Also, lets keep in mind that knights have only 3 bombs that cost 20 coin a piece, and most of them are using the bombs on enemy knights that are in the way of the archers. There are a lot more arrows being spammed at knights then bombs being spammed at archers, so it would be natural to think bombs pack more of a punch.

 

You just partially gave the reason for not having charged arrows disappear on death. If a knight makes it to an archer, and kills the archer, why does the archer still get a free kill if the knight was weakened and they had a charged arrow? If I'm playing as knight, and my slash-bar is fully charged, I don't slash before dying, I just die. If someone is allowed to get into melee range with an archer, the archer should be actually punished for it, just as whenever a builder is standing out in the open or a knight has their shield down. You shouldn't get rewarded with a 1 to 1 trade-off when someone exploits the weakness of your class.

Now, I'm not saying that arrows should just disappear. If we did that, then we would have to do the same for at least carried bombs (which also doesn't make much sense on its own). Realistically speaking, yes, the arrow would still fire. But, if the knight was in stabbing or slashing range, and just dealt a killing blow, we would have to assume that had either knocked the bow in a different direction (slashing), or turned his body sideways (stabbing) and more likely than not dodged the arrow. The arrow would then just be going to the side of him. So, I would actually like to see the arrow still fire on death, but just not hit their killer if they were killed by a melee attack (by knight or builder), or possibly if they were killed by a bomb too (concussive force = arrow thrown off course or failed to fire entirely).

This doesn't really matter at all. Of course bombs aren't as strong at a range as arrows are. First off, knights have a freaking shield and more life, so they shouldn't be just as strong over long distances as archers are. Secondly, bombs do other stuff as well. That builder doing a smug face as he begins termiting? Toss a bomb in that gap in the ceiling and calmly walk away with the explosion in the background. Group of enemies clustered together within throwing range? +4. Someone made a 3-5 block wide tower and held the door open for you? Bye bye tower. Not to mention, bomb jumping is still easy with practice.

You can't have a versatile weapon like a bomb given to a versatile class like a knight and then give the bomb the same range and ease of use of arrows and call it balanced. Like Exid said anyway, the problem isn't so much the range and mobility (climbing up trees and arrows in walls) of the archer, it's when archers become untouchable at a tall height and can just spam arrows down without any challenge from the enemy. For that, only tunneling/termiting is a decent counter tactic, and with the quickness of building (one click to place a stone block versus 7 hits to remove one) an organized team can interrupt it.