Class Bawww/Argument thread

Any archer stupid enough to fall on a knight on purpose deserves to die. Archers with reasonable skill would synch up, and if on a vantage point, (i.e a tower) could kill any incoming enemies with ease. Archers are not meant for the front lines, and thus don't need a speed boost.

 

I think you overestimate your average pub archer.
They NEVER sync, even if their actual aiming and timing is good.
Also, archers aren't stupid if they fall on a shielding knight to rid of him. It breaks their shield, and if you have a charged arrow ready, you can (from certain heights), kill or almost kill him, forcing a retreat. The issue is when they move away enough or light a bomb, which is when you need extra speed. A skilled knight can kill a faster enemy anyway...
Archers aren't meant to be on the front lines, no, but they should be able to defend a tower that's being attacked directly. I hate that archers rely on knights to protect them, because even if one half charged arrow hits them, they can be killed by a slash or full arrow immediately, which makes any level of archer run home to a healing spot. If archers were given a slightly faster running speed, they could at least draw the knights attention away for more than a couple of seconds before they are shredded.

 

Why shouldn't they rely on knights to protect them? They are mainly a support class, so they don't need a speed boost since they should not be near the knights in the first place. Although I can understand how kids like the idea of being a pro-leet ninja archer. Honestly I think that's stupid. In their core I think that archers are meant for towers, or high vantage points. So giving them a speed boost will only help them run to the healing station faster.

 

There are times when archers are extremely helpful outside of their comfort zone; eg. climbing the enemies last tower and getting the flag/throwing it over, and also stunning knights so your teammates can push more effectively. Obviously if there are knights around, let them fight the enemy, but if not, then being able to run without worrying about the bulky sword wielding maniac behind you actually reaching you is very helpful. I can't count how many times I run out into the fray (as knight) and as soon as I die, the 5 or six archers with me who were moving forward are instantly gibbed by the oncoming enemy. They simply have no chance. The couple who try to run are stuffed the moment they get to a 4 high wall. If archers had just a bit more speed, they could gain enough distance to overcome these obstacles while still maintaining the heat the of the chase.

 

Read more carefully, I didn't call you retarded. I said don't be retarded. Smart people can say some incredibly dumb shit because they didn't think about before hand.

And don't be ridiculous. 2 Archers can crush 6 knights if they sync their power shots. Bombs are literally the only thing that give knights the ability to compete with archers in medium combat, where its an even matchup in my opinion.

Its simple, if you make it so that a knight can't catch an archer into melee range then archer will crush knights every time. Archers should think ahead before getting into melee range with a knight. Giving them too Archers are already very mobile and able to be effective from very safe positions. I beg you to find a knight who can be effective inside a tower aside from shielding an archer. Playing knight is a risky class, so you should be rewarded with getting closer to archers. If an archer can just outrun you it just creates a frustrating interaction where the archer gets a get out of jail free card despite being outplayed by the knight.

Playing archer is about positioning, prediction and skill. It shouldn't be about kiting knights forever on the ground. Everyone should run and jump the same speed.

 

Alright, alright, you win! haha
Kind of wanted see what reaction it would elicit to be honest, hence the thread's name. I see where you're coming from.

 

I don't think archers shouldn't get a speedboost, but at the same time, I think they do. (paradox O_o)
Of course, a knights armor wasn't really as heavy as the armor used in modern warfare,
but that does not mean that they should be as quick as archers, who don't even wear any.
No armor < Featherweight armor < Chunkametal
Archers are meant to be the mobile class, and right now, they aren't half as mobile as knights:

Knights:
can jump three blocks,
can slash-jump four blocks,
can vault four blocks,
can slash-vault five blocks.
can glide twice the distance they fall, untill they reach the point where they are forced to stop gliding.
can use bombs to boost their jumps to +/- ten blocks,
(and, if the knight is a pro-BJ'er, he can probably reach double the height of that!)
can use bombs in combination with gliding to jump +/- THIRTY blocks forward,
can use his shield to boost other knights,
can use his shield to make bridges,
COULD use his shield to fly. (nostalgic)

Archers:
can jump three blocks,
can climb trees.
hmm..
...
...
...
dissapointing.

Sooo....
Archers aren't half as mobile as you think.
If a knight has a bomb, archer is done for; even if there's a twenty blocks space between them, the knight just bombjumps, glides, catches up, and kills. Yeah: at the cost of a bomb, but do you think the archer has not wasted ten arrows on that knights shield yet?
That's why I think archers need a speedboost.
Unfortunately, in KAG, that would probably end up OP'ing archers, so just saying "hi archers, I'll grant you invincibility", it'd be better to find another way to solve this.

Some ideas:
Faster treeclimbing.
Server chooses for speedboost or not.
Longer stun.
Higher jump. WAY HIGHER. one and a half blocks. max.
Knights can only block yellow arrows with their shields if standing still, red arrows can be blocked while moving, and gray arrows become useless on knights, but will still damage archers and builders. of course, shielding knights would get a speedboost, and the ability to jump up one block: while shielding, they would just walk a little faster than they do now. not a real speedboost.

Last idea is kinda messy...

 

Guys can I just says this. Archer =/= ninja.

Most of the things you guys wan are what ninja's do. Not archers.

Since when did an archer climb a wall on his arrows in medieval times? Never

Since when did an archer jump on a knight and shoot him at the same time then uber hax his way through 5 knights? Never

I can give more examples but the main point I'm trying to give here is Archers are mobile enough as it is, infact maybe a bit too mobile. Sure it's a game and sure it would be cool. However these are archer we are talking about. It would be understandable if it was an assasian or rouge but they're not. The sole purpose of an archer is to go "pew pew" with a bow and arrow. The only time in war when an archer is upfront is, when a small group of them go forward to pick of enemies or try to pick of main targets. Otherwise they're always at a vantage point or behind knights (and other sword/other close range fighters) to give them support. That's what an archer is.

If you want "superelitenoscopepro" archers then make a server and mod it in yourself.

 

But I live life in 2D ;_;

 

Its possible that a good Archer in the medival times could fire alot of arrows in a minute, plus in the game we know that the Archer has a shortbow, and not a longbow. So the archer would be able to reload his bow, even if he jumps on an opponent. The problem is that a Knight with full armor (iron), can outrun Builders or Archers, insta gib + fly, and of cource this game doesn't have any realism. If kag was "real", Knights would be hecka slow, there would be no bombs (could, but no), Archers/Builders would be able to move fast, and there would be cannons actually :).
Also, Archers are too easy, no real arc for Arrows, and the hated shield break. The normal un-modified gamemode Arrow arcs make Archers seen as unskillful, and not good. Which makes Archers hated. I favor a nerf to arrow range, and to shield breaking*, and adding arrow arcs, but I do want a buff to speed/jumping. This would force Arrows to AIM, and actually not camp on towers.
But of cource we can't have any realism.

edit: The devs are derping around, changing sprites, and combat in the perm version, so Classic will stay the same. So no point in fighting over something that will never happen.

 

Builders who run around like their knights should go die.

 

I dunno why people keep saying that the archer is a "support class" as if that means that it shouldn't be as fleshed out or as fun to play as knight. Back in my day it was the knights who supported the archers. The archer was the go to class for people with actual skill and the knights were there for simpletons to play and be somewhat useful, smacking down towers to make way for the archers.

The fact that people call archers " just a support class" is just indicative the devs have been incredibly heavy handed with their archer nerfs. In fact they've realized this and as you can see the scripting build previews, archers may yet again lord over knights.

 

Not totally unless they are trying to build ladders for there knights to make it up the opposing teams tower.
Also I've seen some archers that act like they are archers let say it doesn't go so well

 

I mean like people who use builder for a strictly offensive class.They build very little and just fight i mean thats okay but just constantly wasting tickets and shit. Its a waste.

 

Ahh yes I hate when that happens especially when some stupid builder on 0 spawn opens the door and a bomb comes in and kills you all hate that

 

I love you and i hate you Concon. I really do, But your an acception i like to think of you as Thor god of thy hammer. You should personally have ur own Thor head in KAG cause ur so OP.