State of the latest update on water, and issues

As you can see the Beta's allure is mostly the fact it is a new version of this game combined with the allure of the potential full modification capabilities, along with the fact in its mainline settings (Mainlined defined as settings default created by Geti and MM) make the combat a lot faster, Not to mention the complexity given to you moreso than the previous Classic, in the form of better physics more objects and factories, along with the water.

The water as of this most recent mainline version slows you down to a crawl when drowning not allowing you to exit the water to breathe, aka Slash Swimming as a knight as gone, and building underwater constructs and bridges is difficult and time consuming, as you can see the foresight of these changes was to pander to those who hate demo focus and to buff boats, but lets analyze the real issues of this shall we?

Boats - You cannot reinforce it past a certain distance since players trying to swim to it will drown, attacking knights will also drown and be kept out, A buff to boats, and making the focus more on boats as you can see with the direct reason for this change.

Thats the positives, now lets go down to the negatives.

Your offense is limited to each boat spawn, your push cannot be reinforced, after it is past a certain distance, You cannot attack towers without a boat and catapult or builders, defense exponentially gains effectiveness the closer you are to the tower.

THE only building under any danger IS now the towers that are directly against the water, This means building so dirt is still on the shoreline is now SUPER effective since there is now little to no danger barring idiocy of team in letting enemy align themselves to get a easy access to said shoreline, since they cannot swim to it anymore on most maps.

You may say "WHAT ABOUT THE SIEGE WEAPONS ON WARBOATS LIKE CATAPULTS AND BALLISTAS?"

Lets analyze that too shall we? The arc is not high enough on the catapult to remove anything further up the shoreline without heavy digging or idiocy of the team involved in letting said boat move closer to the main base construct. This means your offense is completely not usable, barring enemy team idiocy.

The only options as of this build per offensive effectiveness are the following, with points detailing their weaknesses so you cannot throw repeat ideas at my argument.

Tunnels under the lake - Time consuming, requiring drills, can be ruined with a few kegs since it is connected without water to enemy base and they have the shorter spawntime and access to said items.

Suicide building a island barracks near enemy - Can be destroyed easily and will take a lot of builder deaths and stone along with difficulties reinforcing as of now.

Boats with Catapults - Arc is not good enough to hit further shore towers unless dug out and builders are a juicy target for knights who will respawn repeatedly, with their random bombs.

Boats with Builders in attack team - Boat and builders will most likely die en route since the shorter swim distance in closing gives enemy team options to pelt and respawn and attack again since swimming distance is not too far to drown this is weak because builders are a juicy target for knights who will respawn repeatedly, with their random bombs.

Boats with kegs - Once again we run into the issue of you waiting on boats to spawn, kegs to spawn, and successfully detonating kegs on anything meaningful, you'll remove dirt, but whats stopping them from replacing it with stone and wood?

It also does not help that the enemy team's offensive players will now be hugging the shoreline until their boat is ready allowing them to fight quickly to defend.

In any case the faster the game can turn in either direction the more satisfying the game play is, since the faster a game turns the more a individual's addition to the collaborative team effort matters, moreso than the current turtlefest that is developing in the beta.

Lets also look at the stone technology, was there any reason to split the stone emplacements into requiring a contract?

All this does is slow the game down and require you to do more before you can build the stone resource based blocks, and its not like they weren't already rarely used as is since most of the maps are water, along with the weakness of them ending up bombed into a crater.

 

First of all I thought sharks were supposed to keep out swimmers, but since their movement speed is shitty and they just eat each other I guess we totally gave up on that idea. Now we're stuck with molasses for water. I still think that shark/fish coves that spawn creatures periodically are needed because sharks end up dying from the first boat that hits it anyway. For those thinking that sharks are OP, it's usually because they hop on your boat. I agree that they shouldn't hop on boats, but they shouldn't be weakened against swimmers too.

The way I see it, ships are still way too weak. Once you get up to the enemy shoreline or wall it will be sunk within seconds, drowning all passengers. Also, I don't know what Geti/MM were thinking when they made drivers take like twice as much damage. Basically if you're rowing and you get hit by anything you're dead. This is horrible for small games when all passengers have to be driving or else they're sitting ducks.

I also don't really get the point of the stone technology scroll. It seems gimmicky and there is already a high enough cost to build stone structures.

Anyway, I agree with a lot of stuff here. Generally people die too fast and easily in siege situations, leading both teams nowhere fast.

 

Right now it's easiest to just pop a Dinghy and barracks, and swarm the enemy. Anything past that gets drawn out too much, and requires minecrafting to a large extent. Its either Dinghy-Knight rush or minecraft to get some siege weapons, war boats, and maybe pyro or military. On the matter of sharks, why not remove the hopping crap and make them actual sharks. Perhaps damaging Dinghies a small bit upon touching it, and some better path-finding or whatever it is.

 

You do realize a dinghy is a boat right, I addressed your solution entirely, or can you not read that much?

 

Well since the thread didn't gain huge attention, might as well post here too. It's briefly about the same topic.

 

If Airraiding does get implemented, I am pretty sure you can plant both ballista, Catapult, and mounted bow on them. Pretty OP IMO.

 

Monsteri while driving to hardees, I thought about it, right now a lot of issues could be fixed if the boats were simply just made like 25% faster so your raid would hit fast and hard for each boat loaded.

 

Longboats go stupidly fast is you can manage to get your entire team to row.
Edit: When I say "entire team" I mean around 10 players.

 

Not fast enough, boats should have more of a offensive edge, so you cannot argue against the fact that as of right now they are kind of gimped in going through a good team.

I thought about it again, boats could get a 25% speedboost, and they should plow dirt along with the usual blocks along with this boost.

That way your boats will be crashing into the enemy defense like a motorboat at ww2 omaha beach, with all of the soldiers exiting after it plows into the defense.

 

Water was fucking awful in classic and here it is no different. Even with boats water does not in any way enhance gameplay. Why is being forced to pile your entire attacking force into one easily reckd bundle better than allowing individual players to move as they please? The solution is to just not play on awful water anymore.

 

Isn't water just a softer builder phase from Classic?

 

Well theres 0 No water servers right now too, along with the fact no water makes people super angry and sad for the dumb reason of the maps ending in less than 3 minutes if one team fails to make a barracks immediately, or lacks a good knight whilas water is great for people who want to sit and build slowly, and not have their entire team wrecked by a single person who spent the time to actually test the capabilities of the combat classes on anything other than slow moving boats with no room to move.

If you actually look at what this means, a single player in the BETA matters more than ever, on no water maps, considering how fast the game can turn in either direction when theres isn't water artificially slowing the combat to being sporadic with boat and building delays.

Since one knight can now decisively turn a game in either direction when there is no water, we should be having funtimes on no water servers if they existed more than one update.

 

Yes. Originally water was planned out as something to stop the team from advancing too quickly in the WAR mode, as I guess the red barrier was too artificial. If the map and meta were actually layered like this, and the game progressed swiftly enough, water could be a fun element. Or water can still be fun, but your whole team needs to know what it's doing. One retard and it's all ruined.

 

Cant agree more.The most annoying thing is that you can drown infront of a boat,getting inside is really clunky,especially on warboat.

To attack you need to
-get a boat
-get at least 3 guys with you
-get a keg/drill/builder

...and it always ends up the same way : you either meet an equal boat on your way and you both end up sinking or one of the boat lives but builders and siedge equipment are gone so it is pointless to keep pushing.

If you somehow get to their shore , all it requires for defenders is to simply throw bombs in your general direction to clear builders and guys with drills or fire arrows.And if you actually have kegs out at this point,it will make their job even easier.

If you try to create a base with barracks in the middle of the lake and not drown in the process because of new mechanics(which are lame),have fun seeing how it gets rammed by a boat from opposing team,or even your own team's boat if your teammates do not give a crap.

 

Let's make a map that supports this kind of gameplay. So far the only one that remotely resembles it is WarMiddleIsland.png

Unfortunately, the center island lacks surface bedrock so players use drills to remove it.

 

Or how about we play landmaps, and force the playerbase to learn to enjoy the combat instead of rely on water to defend them from the perils of the opposing team.

 

So make some