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[935] Wall Tactic

Discussion in 'Building Critiques' started by buboe, Nov 10, 2013.

  1. buboe

    buboe Builder Stabber

    Messages:
    9
    [​IMG]

    The only way up is through trap doors that will make you fall to the spikes.
    - Wall is hard to destroy without explosives or a good builder.
    - Archers can defend the top.
    - Reliable.

    Tell me your thoughts, feel free to add anything, post your own improvements.
     
  2. buboe

    buboe Builder Stabber

    Messages:
    9
    Oh god, what have I done?
    I chose the wrong forum, this belongs in the non-classic forum.
    This is embarrassing.
     
  3. Jlordo

    Jlordo Nobody Donator

    Messages:
    417
    Don't worry. Some mod will move it.
    Anyway, this thing is ridiculously stone heavy. A single bomb jump could get you over it. Much easier and less costly ways to deny access to your flag/hall.
     
    Sarkalest likes this.
  4. Crabmaster

    Crabmaster Bison Rider
    1. Zen Laboratories

    Messages:
    322
    A single bombjump will get you over practically anything now days...

    I do like the concept though, makes it harder for archers to get up. My only suggestions would be to make the door only 2 tall, those extra 3 doors is an extra 150 stone. And also a lot less trap blocks, maybe 2-3 for your team mates to jump up with, and then maybe some saws or spikes with wooden platforms around them under those trap blocks.
     
  5. buboe

    buboe Builder Stabber

    Messages:
    9
    Well, I built this in solo sandbox, you can expect me to take my time and make it big.
    Thanks for the feedback anyways.
     
  6. AsIPutOnMyWizRobes

    AsIPutOnMyWizRobes Catapult Fodder

    Messages:
    25
    Maybe, if we're talking about getting to the front door, ya. But it'd still be incredibly hard for a knight, even hard for an archer to get up over the wall, especially with the hook on the wall.
     
  7. buboe

    buboe Builder Stabber

    Messages:
    9
    That won't do anything. Before you get a chance to break the door you'll fall in.
     
  8. AsIPutOnMyWizRobes

    AsIPutOnMyWizRobes Catapult Fodder

    Messages:
    25
    That's what I mean, lol. He was saying it's easy to get over by bomb jumping, I was disproving him. :P
     
  9. neither is hard lol, its 2 seconds of grappling as an archer and 1 bombjump as a knight




    wonderful when people whove played the game for a week at most post in classes&mechanics
     
    101i and Jlordo like this.
  10. Jlordo

    Jlordo Nobody Donator

    Messages:
    417
    Re: Dat building is too high to bomb jump on
    lolno
    screen-13-11-11-11-55-50.png
    23 blocks. 1 bomb.
     
    Galabranth likes this.
  11. Crabmaster

    Crabmaster Bison Rider
    1. Zen Laboratories

    Messages:
    322
    Seeing Jlordo's picture makes me question if the "nurf bomb jumping" thread has a point...

    Like seriously I like a lot of these wall designs I see people make but as cool as they are bomb jumping makes them useless...Tall towers are expensive too.
     
  12. Contrary

    Contrary The Audacious Paramount of Explosive Flight Donator Tester

    Messages:
    2,196
    I don't see why people think that being able to be cleared with a bomb jump makes a building useless. Over 90% of knights can't bomb jump and even for those that do buildings are still obstacles. Losing another bomb is a huge deal when you are going deep into enemy territory and if properly built provide a strong advantage for defenders.

    In fact ignore bomb jumpers as that's practically a fringe case, especially considering the current playerbase. Buildings block enemies yeah, but they also protect your team from projectiles, protect your archers, give your fighting classes height advantage, and so much more. Focus on the stuff that actually matters rather than dismissing a structure because 1% of the playerbase can get on top of it.
     
    Sir_Walter, FuzzyBlueBaron and Gurin like this.
  13. Kouji

    Kouji Cold, Uncaring, Sadistic, Evil and Cruel Meanie Administrator Global Moderator Forum Moderator Tester
    1. MOLEing Over Large Estates - [MOLE]
    2. REKINS OF SEAS: Super Crew of Ultimate Havoking 2: Return of King of KAG: Chapter 420blazeit - REKIN

    Messages:
    2,910
    If I were going to improve this, I'd just cut down stone costs on the left and inside by replacing it with wood. You can also cut stone down by not using double trap blocks, since that's kind of redundant. I'd use something like upside down bridges so if they attempt to jump up, the can't get out and will be forced to get hit by spikes. It'll let you save your stone to repair stuff on the front side and wood is easy to replace so fire isn't as big a deal. Biggest problem to me is how long it'd take to build. I think there are other buildings that are more cost effective defensively vs the time required to build it. Mainly cause of it's shape, you have to build it from right to left (if on blue) and during that time, you'll be fairly vulnerable since it won't be doing as much defending. After it gets built, sure it's strong enough (although I'd use more wooden back wall on the front side so that bomb arrows don't cause the top to collapse if the doors are broken, letting you replace the doors later).
     
  14. JTG

    JTG Bison Rider Tester

    Messages:
    114
    Roofs serve a purpose crabmaster and so does enclosing important structures such as knight shops and ballistas that can be turned against you when a bombjumper breaches.

    That being said, a stray bombjumper is easier to defend against moreso than a frontal mob of angry knights, which this stops, although the trap block usage can be cut down to minimal to save stone and time.

    Towers like this exact one were common during war condition period of beta, so it is nothing new in any case, and it works. Simply because the main defense is the trap block area which will pit, then again giving enemies any safe area of respite they can exit and enter freely like that triangle is a bad idea, so you might want to just consider a pit with small spattering of trap blocks across it to get knights up, unless you want to dig a really deep pit under it.

    And on that note you made me consider the actual dynamics of explosive usage, I imagine making very long stone structures with single stone door layers at least 6 apart from each other would delay a team for quite a long time, since you'd need a keg for each individual layer.
     
    Contrary likes this.
  15. buboe

    buboe Builder Stabber

    Messages:
    9
    So, by the bridge thing, you mean something like this?
    [​IMG]
     
  16. Knights could walk in and throw a couple of bombs to destroy the spikes with these sort of structures though. It would be better if the front would be a wall. The stone could be made more useful though, so put that in mind ingame.
     
  17. Kouji

    Kouji Cold, Uncaring, Sadistic, Evil and Cruel Meanie Administrator Global Moderator Forum Moderator Tester
    1. MOLEing Over Large Estates - [MOLE]
    2. REKINS OF SEAS: Super Crew of Ultimate Havoking 2: Return of King of KAG: Chapter 420blazeit - REKIN

    Messages:
    2,910
    screen-13-11-12-06-11-00.png
    Meant something more like this (although it's just wider horizontally than it really needs to be). As you can see, your team can walk over it just fine. However anyone on the other team will fall through the trap blocks and then the bridge blocks (since they are upside down). Bridge blocks are one way blocks, which means once they fall in, they can't just jump out or walk out, since it walls them in (especially since there is a delay on spikes). There are cheaper traps that do this as well though.
     
  18. buboe

    buboe Builder Stabber

    Messages:
    9
    I see what you mean, good idea. Now, let's go see what I can make with all this.
    Post in a bit.
    --- Double Post Merged, Nov 12, 2013, Original Post Date: Nov 12, 2013 ---
    Here you go.
    [​IMG]
     
  19. AsIPutOnMyWizRobes

    AsIPutOnMyWizRobes Catapult Fodder

    Messages:
    25
    Yeah, that's a lot better than before. I like the platforms you added. Stops archers and knights getting to the top of the wall. Like Kouji said though, it could still be a lot shorter than it is to save resources. I would also have added an extra ladder in the back and some cover for archers.
     
  20. EhRa

    EhRa Ooooooof Staff Alumni Donator
    1. KRPG

    Messages:
    810
    So an improvement to this. You know up the top how you said archers can defend it. Maybe think of adding bridges that are vertical (and facing right). This would allow the archers to attack a sieging enemy without the worry of getting hit by an arrows. Well that my suggestion