[939][Gen] Water Ammo Discussion

I think that with a bit of priming time to give potential victims time to react, water arrows could be stomachable. Though I'd also like to see Geti's idea of making the splash blockable.

 

all i want is water bombs to be nerfed so its not an instastun, in other words it shouldnt explode on impact. i was fine with the way water arrows were but skinney is the best archer in the game so his idea on them are probobly more valuable then my own. geti in the end what were trying to say is that water weapons need to be changed. so many people agree with this its astronomical.

 

I've actually realized recently how incredibly easy it is to just chuck water bombs at people, and I'd like to retract my statement about how they're balanced in Knight combat... because they're not.

I feel like if you put them on a timer, though, they'll become useless. See, the upside of the water bomb was always that they could be thrown immediately, whereas a bomb had to be cooked for a second or two to work properly, giving enemies time to prepare evasive maneuvers.

Knights won't have the pleasure of quickly lobbing a water-bomb at an Archer in a tower anymore and killing them with fall damage, which makes me sad, even though I'm usually the one on the receiving end of that tactic. :/

I honestly don't know what the solution is, but it is clear that something has to change. Water bombs as they are now get seriously abused in TTH servers (and to a lesser extent, CTF servers).

 

I've always seen the concept of water bombs be that you are throwing a glass bottle of water at your enemies and breaking glass splashes water all over them that will blind, frustrate, and confuse your enemies for a few seconds with water in their face/eyes and broken glass hitting them.

This means a shield should block the effect(can't hit your face if a shield is in the way!). This is a good solution for knights, even though it is kinda annoying to make the shield powerful against ANOTHER thing...
This also means that this shouldn't really effect someone swimming(they would already be wet and less effected by being splashed by more water, in concept). This would fix the issue of it happening during water combat.

Those two simple changes are really both logical and easy solutions to the OPness people seem to have issues with...If they prove to not be enough add the ability to deflect them with arrows or something...I dunno...I kinda don't wanna say slashes because that would render them 90% useless. Also if it is possible the water arrows shouldn't be nurf'd if the water bombs are...If the water arrows are nurf'd than their support abilities and ability to help you run away would be ruined...

 

Not gonna lie, after reading this thread, I tried giving water bombs a serious try.

THESE THINGS ARE FUCKING OP MAN

I load up on 4 WB's, and lob them while a teammate runs in and kills shit. He runs back with his coins, buys 4, then I take a turn. Rinse and repeat. We slaughtered waves of enemies until one kegged us. Then we did it again anyway because fuck your gods. It wasn't until our money went a bit low and I started missing my target a bit that they finally got back at us and to0ok our bombs for themselves. Then it was reverse slaughter!

So yes, they definitely need changes. Timer, no. They'll be completely useless. I think making them affect teammates would be a good enough change, quite honestly. Then you can't just lob them into crows for mega stun, as your teammates might suffer too. Sure, then teammate noobs with shit aim can keep knocking you out, but the risk increase might be enough to remove the edge a bit.

 

I don't see how a timer would make them useless. It's not exactly like there's a good way to stop water bombs, even when you know they're coming. Really your only options are get the hell out dodge, or kill the person before its primed. Neither of these options sound particularly easy unless the timer is like 30 seconds long.

 

Another thing could be that they still 'explode' on impact, but if shielded only gives a short duration of slowed movement speed; meaning the splash effect causes the slowed movement speed, where as the knight getting hit is both stunned and slowed afterwards. I think that could work!.. Maybe. Would mean slowed knights would just have to play really defensively, which is not the easiest when the enemy knight is quicker on his toes during that shorter time

 

it would seem anyone that had an opinion based on water bombs are good have changed their minds. you know why? its because they need to be changed. i seriously hope geti and the other devs look at this and change thier minds too.

 

Holy shit we need to stop talking about this guys I think the general public is catching on. I just came from a game where the enemy team was abusing the shit out of water ammo. They stacked water ammo factories and them knights were mashing space every time you got within a few tiles of them.

The archers man... They were popping off water arrows into knight moshpits, stunning 3-4 of my team at a time and if there were no obvious clumps they would send triple water arrow shots into the air, carpet bombing the whole battlefield.

There is no counter to this. You are just walking along and without warning BAM you can't control your character.

I don't like this kind of design but maybe sponges could negate water ammo stun? It's a dumb idea and is bad design but we need something to stop this and all of our non stupid ideas are being rejected.

 

Best counter, limit archer use xD
Meaning have a limit on how many archers per team...

 

Ouf... Sounds good in theory, but I many times log on just because I want to swing around and shoot people with the archer class. Making a limit on classes would fix a lot, but yeah... Wouldn't work.

 

Explain what you mean. The answer is a bit obvious, but maybe the answer in your mind is different. :o

 

If there's a limit on your favourite class, you might not wish to play on the server if the limit is reached - I hate to play knight, I just tap a few times to scoop in kills (At least against newer players) But even against new people it's still somewhat fun to play as an archer. Plus, I prefer their mobility. That's why, I sometimes play a game to log on and do what I like

 

So I had a dream last night about how to solve this. Crazy, I know, but this should work. (Dreams always have the best solutions, I do all my brainstorming in my sleep.)

1. Water bombs must be primed for two seconds before being thrown in order to explode on impact. If you double tap space they won't explode for two seconds since they weren't primed. This accomplishes two things in that it allows the enemy to see "Oh hey, he's priming a water bomb!" and it also removes the spamming.
2. Once primed they can be held indefinitely and will not explode on the player holding them.
3. If primed and not thrown, being slashed or jabbed or basically injured in any way will make them explode and stun only you, making them a bit riskier.
4. They can be shielded, but will result in a 75% horizontal movement speed reduction. (No stun, like
5. They will stun allies and enemies both when thrown, in addition to the player.


If someone wants to create a modded server based on this and test it out, I'll be happy to join in and see if this works. It should, ideally. This incorporates some of the suggestions that have been made but I actually didn't read anything past contrary's reply to my post last night.

 

I like that idea!.. Besides the whole friendly fire thing... It's never good to let friendlies accidently be able to hit you like that ;C

 

Kegs can kill friendlies though. If they couldn't they'd be abused so much more, which is exactly the issue we have now. People who are worried about trolling teammates with water bombs have just as much to worry about with kegging teammates.

Oh also, note that my suggestions only apply to water BOMBS. Water arrows would not affect teammates and they'd be essentially the same explode-on-impact that they are now.

 

Kegs also cost some 4x the amount of coins and are a siege item and not a combat item...

If I see a keg being thrown of course I wanna run away.
If I see a water bomb being thrown of course I wanna run toward it and toward the enemy it hits...not run away.

I also like most of your ideas except for the teammates being stunned.