General Knight Changes

Yeah that was fucked up </3

 

It's not really much of a skill ceiling when spamming spacebar and shielding downward propels you into the stratosphere. Most knights currently in kag are just too dumb to figure this out after watching a vet do it.

 

Not sure if this bug is still present, but you can't shoot at a shield gliding knight from the side, as the hitbox of the shield is way larger than it shows - I've only been able to hit shield gliders from below

 

Knights holding kegs also seem to be immune from slash stuns.

 

I only have 1 complaint with the knight being OP. It's the double slash. You can lunge so far it makes it near impossible to dodge them, This is the only part that bothers me to this date.

 

A: My first point as to why Knights are O.P. you apparently keep hearing about it constantly. We call that a clue.

What can knights do
Bomb Jump (negating builders/ buildings)
Throw Bombs (killing alot of people)
Use Kegs (obliterating anything, again negating buildings)
Glide (negating buildings)
Surf
One hit anything other than knight
Double slash and (depending on lag) have a range that goes from a bomb explosion to a keg explosion.
Are immortal if their shield is up
Can dig through dirt
Can dig through wood

Archers
Can set wood on fire
Can shoot arrows, or charge to shoot 3 arrows
Can shoot bomb arrows
Can hookshot

Builders
Can build blocks
Can build workshops
Can destroy blocks
Can gather resources


Okay, all the perks/ defining factors of the classes lined up. Knight is immortal unless they lower their shield, can one hit any other class, and can jump over the majority of buildings.

Knights are unbelievably unbalanced, it absolutely blows my mind how no one sees this.

 

I keep hearing this "The other classes are 'support" nonsense.
They're so underpowered the only thing they CAN be is support.
This is shitty balance on the DEVs part and the community is so desperate to try and make it sound intentional.

This isn't a MOBA, this is a side scrolling game with only one class. Plus two options you can choose if you're bored and don't want to actually matter.

 

The features list for the game says 3 classes, not 1 class and 2 support. The devs have released a sub-par product to a playerbase, and people are obviously pissed because the most common post is "Fix the knight!"

I haven't a bias- I have the ability to look at a game, from years of playing and see poorly balanced classes. That's called experience, that's called expecting a standard when I purchase a video game.

EDIT: Honestly it doesn't matter this game is dying, it's never going to be fixed. The DEVs aren't fixing the game, the forum admins are deleting the threads of pissed off people and banning anyone who doesn't love the game, and the player base is blind and keeps making excuses for the DEV team's failures.

 

This is toxic

Your frustration with this game is palpable. I'm new and obviously inexperienced with the knight as well (hence the reason why i made this thread). Slaying a bunch of noobs is a walk in the park for a good Knight and the wild frustration of a new player doing everything in there power to stop them.

You should give the game a fair chance there are other games with worse learning curves then this one, league of legends for example. Which constantly has people crying that the game is broken and unbalanced and is constantly being balanced. Also you should think of balance as more roles to play rather then true balance which is rock, paper, scissors and kind of uncomplex if you ask me.

This game would be nothing more than a 2-d side scrolling deathmatch if it wasn't for the builder. So his role in this game is pivotal he/she, in my opinion, is what makes this game. He/she creates the player made obstacle course for which the other team must overcome.

As for the archer I don't think I'll be satisfied till he has a katana and shurikens but thats also my opimion.

 

Thanks for having me :)

 

Honestly, as far as crowd control goes, they are better at passive damage, and area denial at the very best, and in numbers because that's the best way to use normal ammo.

A class that can do jack shit with their default outfitting is a problem. (b800 had a reverse problem, ignoring the water ammo)
Builders can do a hell of a lot of damage with a pickaxe to structures, resource gathering, and in the case of CTF, 30s and 100w every 20" or 30".

--
In terms of Archer Combat being recommended only around water features (chosenone)... water features are rear, and very simple to circumnavigate.

 

Alp suggestions: (talking about tth, haven't played a good ctf match in 5ever)

1) remove tech scrolls from maps, giving a team end game technology at the beginning of the game is highly illogical, and actually does make buildings quite a bit less useful. I'm the first to say that buildings are way stronger than everyone gives them credit for, but even I have to admit that they're just a waste of time when the enemy can have kegs and bomb arrows before build time is up.

2) forgot the other one.

Alp points:

1) knights vs archers:

Spoiler: Are Shields Really OP?

While it can be said that it isn't really fair to archers since they can't damage a knight from long distance if they're shielding, I argue that the archer's job is not to kill the knight, it's to make him useless; something far worse. Even if a structure wasn't knight proof, made of wood instead of stone, if you have a single archer at the top, then when the knight tries sawing through it, the archer can shoot and kill him. The knight is suddenly forced to just sit there like a moron waiting for something to happen, because the archer has rendered him completely inert. We are ignoring kegs and things, which I'll get to later, ofc.

Spoiler: Close Combat

in close combat, anyone who thinks that archers should stand a fair chance is insane. Archers can have the ability to kill knights of the same skill level in close combat when knights have the ability to slash archers from 50 blocks away. See my point? If not, look harder, it's literally right in front of you. Having said that: (view next spoiler)

Spoiler: Problems Caused By Skill Differential, Not Inbalances

while the playing field may not be entirely even in close range, archers can still do quite a bit; the issue just comes with skill differential. No high skilled knight is going to let a low to medium skilled archer do ANYTHING to them at close range, however, that isn't because the class is op, it's because they're a better player. There are skilled archers out there that can destroy any medium to low skilled knight in close combat, not because archers are op, but because they're a better player.

The issue with having random pub servers is that you get a whole melting pot of skill levels, and yes, some people are going to get stomped. The issues aren't with the classes though, when a high skilled knight goes up against a high skilled archer, it can really be anyone's win. Honestly, if I saw verrazano in server playing archer, I would run the fuck away. I think a lot of the "issues" with the game stem not from balance problems, but from players being matched against someone a lot more experienced than them, and rather than saying "oh, they're really good," or "oh, I'm really new, and still pretty bad, I should play more to get better," people would rather just blame it on mechanics.

Spoiler: Are Bombs Really OP?

Bombs vs archers: same point I made above. As an archer, if you can't dodge a bomb, then I'm gonna go out on a limb and say as a knight, you aren't the best at aiming your bombs either. These so called "balance" issues are really just the skill differential being really harsh on the newer players. It's an unfortunate factor at play in the game, but lets be honest here, what game DOESN'T have a learning curve?

Spoiler: Kegs VS Bomb Arrows

Kegs vs Bomb arrows: let's see. 1 keg does 4 times the damage as 1 bomb arrow, however, bomb arrows are produced 4 times as fast as kegs, therefore bomb arrows are equal to kegs in damage output, as in the time it takes you to get 1 keg and do X damage, you could get 4 bomb arrows and do 1/4 times 4 times X damage, which equals X damage. Thus, bomb arrows and kegs are equal in damage output.

Now let's look at range: kegs need to be very close to structures, dare I say point blank (unless you made ground doors, in which case, your fault), while bomb arrows can be delivered from a very long range. Therefore, unless the enemy base is just SWARMING with builders repairing after each arrow, bomb arrows are better than kegs in every instance. I personally vote bomb arrows every game, and get super pissed off at people when they vote kegs.

Spoiler: Water Bombs VS Water Arrows

Both of them have the exact same stun, and the exact same knockback. Water arrows have a considerably longer range. Water arrows are flat out better than water bombs, no questions asked.

Spoiler: What Do Archers Have Instead Of Bombs?

Well, having a ranged attack is supposed to be their equivalent of having bombs, but it's late at night, and I really don't feel like delving into this one right now as it's by far the most complex, and is gonna be rendered kind of inert by my next point anyway. I'm gonna chalk it up to "the dev's know what the fuck they're doing"

Spoiler: What Do Knights Have Instead Of Fire Arrows?

Nothing. Archers have a whole 'nother mid game weapon, the only class based mid game weapon in the game, that knights can't even touch. So, even if archers' basic ranged attack was under powered compared to the knight's slash AND bombs, the archers can still set the knights on flippen fire. In fact, some may even argue that the fire arrow is the archer equivalent of the knight bomb, but once again, late at night, tired, maybe later.

Thus, in my opinion, archers are actually quite balanced with knights, if not actually a bit stronger. And for any nay sayers who think my "skill difference" point does not adequately cover archer vs knight combat with basic weapons, I leave you with this:

Spoiler: End All

Often in games, you will see one or two knights seriously smashing the other team up. They'll have huge KD's, and win practically every 1v1 engagement they have with an enemy knight, not to mention take out some crowds of enemy knights as well. Is this because their knight class is stronger than the other knight class? No. They're EXACTLY the same. Some players are just more skilled than others. These players are clearly above average in skill level, so when they come knocking on your castle doors, are you, the archer in the tower, of an average skill level, going to be able to stop them? OF COURSE NOT.

We've already stated that they're above average in skill level, so an archer of a lower skill level will not be able to stop them. This isn't because their knight is overpowered vs your archer, just as their knight was not overpowered against your knight: it's because they're of a higher skill level. I haven't seen any medium skill archers getting slaughtered by medium skill knights, all I've seen is high skill knights destroying everyone, builders, archers, knights, in their path, and people screaming "OMG KNIGHT OP". This cannot be though. Your team has knights, they should be equally "op", and thus able to stop them. You don't get killed because you're at a class disadvantage, you get killed because you're at a skill disadvantage.

Don't believe me? please, the next time you think you're getting killed over and over by knights, without ever killing them yourself, check and see: are they losing over and over in 1v1 vs your knights? or are they smashing their way through them? I'm willing to bet that if they are having no trouble with the archers, then they're not having any trouble with the knights either.

p.s.
In regards to any situation in which an archer thinks that they should be able to take on more than one knight by themselves, you have no understanding of balance. If 1 can beat 2, 1 is stronger. If 1 archer can take on multiple knights, then the archer is stronger. That's not balanced. Don't be ridiculous.

p.p.s.
I'm not even going to go into bombjumping, because it's so easy to stop a bombjumper, if you're having trouble doing so then you just need to practice more and get better at the game.

E:
p.p.p.s.
obvious starting troll post is obvious.

I can also talk about builders, if you like, though I feel that no one will have even read all of this thing in the first place.

 

@FuzzyBlueBaron

If the rest of the KAG community is as hospitable as you and the few others I have encountered I'm sure my stay will not only be enjoyable but long. Thanks

 

Knights are currently overpowered as fuck.

--They can cut through anything made of wood, so a good portion of a base's defenses are useless.
--They can bombjump vertically over just about any tower, once again rendering base defenses useless and reducing the value of other archers and builders on a team.
--Kegs are still the cheapest and most effective way into an enemy base (the increase in default cost did not go far enough). Whether intentional or not, they also blow the shit out of doors much more easily than other blocks, vaguely reminiscent of when doors were entirely explosive-proof, except now it's the complete opposite.
--They are virtually arrow-proof when shielding, especially when shielding up. The shield hitbox is far too large.
--Knights can simply slash their way out of most traps, or carry a single bomb to blow any spikes to smithereens.
--Bombs do not explode or move with the reliability they had in Classic, rendering skill second to luck and defense against bombs more difficult.
--Knights can jump over 8-high walls, vastly increasing offensive capabilities and decreasing reliance on builders and other players for mobility. This is twice as high as Classic, and quite clearly a mistake.
--Knights are the only class that can launch long distances out of a catapult. The other two classes now simply explode on contact with the ground.
--Slashing with a knight while falling downwards requires 0 accuracy and timing, as the hitbox of the slash appears to be vastly larger than that of a knight standing still.
--Jabbing or hitting other knights while they wind up a slash no longer disrupts the slash, leading to slash2win combat scenarios. He who hesitates is lost; he who slashes first is victorious. There is a drastic reduction of skill involved with this, as one tactic trumping all others and negating any strategy based on swordplay is retarded.


Archers are alright, except for the fact that a shielding knight has nothing to fear from an archer, ever, and knights can slash arrows out of the air. Slash2win really needs to be balanced.

Builders currently have the short end of the stick by a wide margin. Bomb jumps (and on certain servers bullshit items like flying chickens) as well as grappling hooks and the absolutely insane current jump heights render walls useless. A distinct lack of mineable stone on many maps leaves the only source a meager stream from the tent every 30 or so seconds--a band-aid solution to a default-game-settings (default maps) problem. There is little resource management on default maps. Resources should come from trees or be mined, not be mostly spawned from the tent. That's poor design. In addition, stone doors are retardedly expensive and justifiably hard to kill, except if you are a knight with a keg reenacting Helms Deep and the breaching of the Wall.

But there is no alternative to using stone: knights can slash through all wooden defenses, and do so with ease. That's dumb. Make fire arrows a little more common and remove the ability for knights to slash through wooden objects--reduce knight omnipotence, add more hilarious fire to the game, and make archers and builders more useful by adding their necessity on the battlefield. Defending builders, meanwhile, have to dismantle a good portion of any trap utilizing trapdoors to repair a trap (which it inevitably needs after an enemy knight slashes most of it to pieces) because unlike in Classic somebody decided a team couldn't go through its own trapdoors. This has been a terrible design flaw, rendering many trap designs useless and further limiting creativity and team mobility. Traps are insanely expensive and have such a bad cost to utility ratio I've mostly stopped bothering with them altogether in favor of playing as an offensive builder. The same is true with walls. Wooden walls are cheap but easily burned by any competent archer or chopped through by knights, while stone walls are horribly expensive and easily brought down with kegs and explosive arrows. Doors are even worse off.

However, there is one saving grace for defending builders that is the bane of all offensive builders: the shitty object selection by the cursor. This results in offensive builders breaking their own ladders to pieces instead of punching through the enemy wall 95% of the time. This, too, is dumb.

In summary, knight mobility and anti-structure capability is too high, and their shields are bugged. This is compounded by the other two classes sucking. All suggested fixes are for CTF, not TTH.