Archer changes general

@bobotype Pretty sure Geti knows more about latency issues than you do.

 

I play archer a lot, and although I dislike it when I manage to get a knight down to a heart on my own, then promptly die to a single slash, I accept it. An arrow that does more damage would make the class WAY too easy.

 

Except, you can't put a shield up to deflect bombs. The only thing you can do is hope you hear it quick, and run for you life which is the crappest mechanic. It only encourages archers to sit in towers since it's harder to hit.

The only other way is to use a water/bomb arrow against them, but you need decent aim. They can also counter it so quick, as soon as they see the arrow being aimed, they can throw the bomb and kill you. That means when struck with said arrow, nothing will really happen, just a short stun.

Because archer and knight topics interlink. You talk about balancing the archer in the knight topic and all the admins move the posts over. There should just be one thread.

 

Have fun reading through a 300+ page clusterfuck with people complaining about balance.

You don't seriously want that, do you?

 

I don't read it all. I just read the last page and start a debate as I have with both of these threads.

 

@bobotype
It's okay, everyone here but you is actually one of @Auburn 's alt accounts.

 

Everyone is talking about the game; in comes Auburn- "WHY DONT U GROW A PAIR LOL WHY DONT YOU GET OFF UR ASS LOLLLLL EVERYONE KNOWS ARCHER WAS DESIGNED TO BE PLAYED AT A 10 TILE RANGE XD"
The Knight's entire job is killing people within those 10 tiles. And he doesn't have to wait 3 seconds for his attacks to charge, AND he has more hearts to burn than you do.
Don't lie, either. If you fire at a Knight from front-on, you cannot hit his head if he is facing his Shield forwards.
And they're being brought up because they're Arrowproof and thus related to the Archer, idiot.

This, a Knight can cook a Bomb behind his Shield, and all an Archer can do is run [unless you're in water] or attempt to Legolas shot which needs 3 seconds to charge and won't even kill. And Bombs can be "bowled" over the water at a floundering Archer on top of that. Solution? A better counter to the Shield for Archers so their only option isn't "run away", and in water, faster swimming speed for the Archer and no more Waterslashing. Shield-surfing is already enough.

Yeah, he does, he made the game, that's why I said "apparently". But yet nobody's explained to me what the actual problem with a smaller Shield cover area on the head and legs would be in terms of GAMEPLAY. You don't balance the game around Archers, for example, not being able to hit their targets because of weird latency problems by giving them homing arrows. It's a bug, not a trait of Knights that things randomly pass through their Shield.

Which is why we aren't asking for that. The vote at the top of the thread is a bit outdated. We're asking for basic arrows that can actually do something against the Knight's bullshit, overpowered, hang-glider/surfboard/explosion proof/fire proof and almost completely Arrow proof RMB.
The fact you manage to get a Knight down to a single heart on your own, still get killed, and yet see that as an accomplishment that you even hurt him, might say something about how "Easy" the Knight is? And you're playing Archer here, a ranged combat class, not Builder or something where that would make sense.

 

Okay then, no Caps Lock.
[discussion about king arthur's gold in progress]
auburn enters: "it's balanced that a Shield can block areas it isn't covering! how about instead of constantly making suggestions that would allow a ranged class to attack at range, you get off your ass, grow a pair and try and fight the melee class at melee range with ranged weapons? it isn't that hard.
now I'm going to bring up bomb unpredictability which was never mentioned!
another side note: why are knight's shields, which hugely impact archers by blocking arrows, brought up in the archer thread?"

Apparently you think all Knights can't play. For starters, they possess a high jump and can move forwards and backwards to evade the initial arrow burst, a burst which even has telegraphing from the Archer as to where it's going to fly so the Knight can decide to backpedal, go in, or jump. The Knight can also respond at this 10 tile range with a Bomb [which he can throw while Shielded] to further complicate matters for the Archer. He has 4 Hearts of Health; he has the option also to tank through the damage and close that 10 tile gap very rapidly with his doubleslash faster than you can charge Arrows to kill him. The entire Archer strategy, as you said, ends up consisting of "run away" either way, because the Knight just needs to get in close even to Jab and it's over very quickly for the low-health Archer, because Jabbing is faster than you can even quarter charge a stun arrow.
And you know what? I don't have any problem with any of that. The Archer shouldn't be dealing damage at a 10 tile range, they should be doing it from far away. That's why they're Archers. Using "camping" in insulting terms doesn't apply- it should be the class's job to keep up area denial with well-aimed Arrows you need dodging or an Archer of your own or a tunnelling Builder to circumvent. An Archer sitting somewhere and firing out Arrows is doing his job, just like a Builder behind the front line at very little risk putting up a wall is doing his job. Doesn't mean an Archer can't travel to the frontlines to help take out campers, either.

Except that isn't front-on. That's above. Being 2 blocks above someone is just that, "above". So you actually were lying.
And the Shield is Arrow-proof from 50 tiles away until 10 tiles, let me correct myself. I did also say that further down the post.

But hey, I guess that means you must be a bad player, right? No, but you ARE being flat out retarded taking on, I'm assuming, at least two Archers as well as another enemy you're trying to slash by yourself. A lot of your posts seem to contain this mentality that you not being able to take on a hail of Arrows by yourself a la Rambo is a bad thing. If there's one you, and multiple enemies, then you need to wait for your team and practice teamwork, as you were so fond of talking of as a reason that Archers shouldn't be able to deal damage alone.

I understand online multiplayer very well and have been trying to get through the concept that you don't balance your base game around people's Internet connections. Now, do you even understand the very class you play?
It's not twitch timing because for starters you can see the Archer's position, so you know the general direction, and you can see where he is aiming his bow. If you have the time to press RMB, you have the time to angle the Shield. If you don't have the time to press RMB, your Internet is bad enough that you shouldn't be playing at all.

On top of that, and here's the huge flaw in your argument; if "twitch" timing is a problem, why the HELL are you playing Knight, Auburn? Your entire Knight versus Knight gameplay for that class centres around charging up doubleslashes and hitting jabs in millisecond windows.
And THAT is why "twitch" is not an argument for Shield size being reduced to more logical constraints. Any further arguments on that one?

 

IMO they should let knights be the harbingers of death but let archers be the demolition squad. Nerf bomb damage to structures, restrict drills to builders, remove kegs, bomb arrows, fire arrows, and mines but give archers timed demolition charges and fire satchels.

This would
1. Give archer a real niche. Sure they can't wipe out entire teams in 5 seconds but they're necessary to break defenses
2. Make archers more fun as it's actually necessary for you to get close
3. Make demolition harder. I like the fact that buildings are easy to destroy as they are now but this is a huge complaint for a lot of people

I think this would finally balance the archer and the knight giving them both different but essential roles to play. In earlier versions of KAG the archer was an unstoppable death machine. Opinions were divided even then but as a dedicated archer I felt that an archer could kill an infinite amount of knights and never die so long as they had an open field to play with. But paradoxically this was when the classes were most balanced. Archers had no mobility options besides jumping so they were completely 100% stopped by so much as a 4 block high wall. But knights could cut right through stone with their swords. In this way each class had a role to fill and none were basically optional (like the archer is now).

 

Yes, I've wanted the freaking fire satchels to be back, though it's a slight whinge that it's not the knight that gets it. OH WELL, but maybe, just maybe we can get a semblance of "defense" from structures, strength from knights, and maybe even something for archers to do.

As it stands, god-damn knight-drill/boulder rushes; Archers with bomb hails; knights with keg storms, and siege just melting everything.

I'm still not a fan of the shield nerf, or b900 archer changes, though.

 

Yes, that's exactly what Archer needs, a niche. Damnit, two of his weapons are just modified Knight weapons on an Arrow. Knights and Builders are indispensable. Archer is the class where if you aren't a pro, you say "enh, looks like there's room for an Archer".

Right now Knight is the harbinger of death, demolitions expert, and even almost as mobile as Archers [bomb jumps, slashdashes, glides, surfs]. Maybe stealthy back-capping would be a good Archer niche to develop?