I miss KAG

Nostalgia makes a lot of things seem better than they were/are. Go play a lot of older games you used to love and you will find they arent quite the same now.

 

I'm not that big of fan of knight fight but I like the new archers - now you can master it and not randomly shot based on how many milliseconds you hold mouse - three state shooting give you a lot of flexibility and great accuracy (aiming for #1 archer :p ).

 

I don't like the movable OPs, either. I think that a knight not being able to destroy stone does add to strategy, but changes the gameplay too much for me. I can no longer slip behind enemy lines and attack them because I can't destroy anything.

Lies. Ever played Zelda: A Link To The Past? :D

 

It's interesting that this thread popped up because I had an idea of hosting an older version of kag. I dunno if it's possible yet, but it seems that you can mess with the config and make it so that the game doesn't update when you execute it. Thus you could install an old version like say build 67 and as long as there is a server up that is of that era... afaik it should work.

There were 2 reasons for doing this:
1. Those of us who want to play the old version once in a while could do so. It would be password protected too and most likely no griefers, if it's just fans who like the old versions playing it.

2. I think it would be a good idea to have an old version to compare new versions to. I've almost forgotten what the pace was like in the old versions. However, MM would frown on this anyway as the game is going in a different direction, so of course pacing is changing and so are gameplay modes. BUT, personally, I'm thinking more from the perspective of teamwork and overall multiplayer. In the earlier builds, the builder for instance had less things to build; there were no spike traps, buildings, catapults, etc. Some builders stayed behind to build vaults for the gold and immediate defenses and the rest always moved with the knights. Teamwork was a bit different then. Even in the future final builds of the game, when there is an overworld and whathaveyou, similar situations might occur, where perhaps you have limited resources or defenses. So looking back at the old versions where resources were limited as well - could help IMO in shaping, balancing and smoothing out multiplayer. As the game gets more complex - such as with classes that level up or something similar, many many more variables get thrown into the mix, making it increasingly difficult to tweak multiplayer.

 

The thing for me is, unfortunately, I have no idea what the effects of knight changes are, But I can say this about the archer changes:

Archers were largely nerfed in aspects of combat, preparation, movement (excluding tree climbing).
Thing is, I actually really like these changes. Why? the challenge allows for a higher skill ceiling and more elements to master. The other changes don't bug me really though, unit counters are really meant to be a stalemate breaker, it's just that they're set so low games usually end like that.

But it's just like Gold Hunt! Gold hunt was fun, then we moved to CTF, but ultimately, CTF isn't exactly the best fit for this game.

Instead, I think it's a game of many objectives: CTF, Deathmatch, Gathering resources, etc. The game is planned to be a more fleshed out environment, so I see different types of objectives, on all kinds of terrain, with variable balance. Unit Counters (as an issue) are very minor in my opinion, when it's as simple as changing a variable.

 

I tend to have the same kinds of clicks of nostalgia and whatnot, and I just played on of the earliest builds the other day by myself (I can put that on a file hosting website if anyone wants to see what it's like). I also feel that the game has problems, or sometimes it doesn't feel right, but I usually forget about it, or never knew what was actually bothering me at all.

Also, going back and playing as the old archer in old builds felt good. The archer just felt really assertive and versatile.

 

Let's put it this way: pre build 80, I could actually play half decent as an archer, as my archer tips and tactics video showed. Now, i'm absolute pants at it.

 

Just modify sandbox/map editor rules so you can use all classes and look how arrows fly.

Thanks to that I can hit almost any place with fully charged arrow in 2nd try (first shot give you information on how much lower/higher you need to aim).

 

Im still finding plenty of archers that have no problem hitting a still target first try nearly every time, second for sure. And plenty that almost always hit moving targets by the second shot. . Thats just for straight shots, dont get me started on the lobbers. Practice and adapt :) *cries because his cata broke*

EDIT: The main issue with the old archer is he was down right OP in the hands of a good player (look at you Contrary!), now the archer is more balanced (not saying its perfect).

 

You should really give knights the ability to damage stone blocks again, or at least a weaker version. Everytime I am in a game I have to wait at least 5-10 minutes before a builder comes and starts working on the situation. Then I COULD go builder but the knights usually stand back and let me die and dont do anything when the enemy destroys the ladders I built or whatever.

 

Noburu 1st shot is the shot I do when i find place to snipe - every next shot is based on last, even if I'm standing in place for 5 minutes :p

What about softer version of stone immunity? What if knight can hit any stone block that was damaged in any way - you can't destroy perfect stone, but if you see a crack you can make it bigger (so digging truth wall with 1 builder and 5 knights is as faster then 1 lone builder ; or catapult scratched the wall... ).

 

I like knights not being able to break stone. It encourages more team play, just give it time. I love being offensive builder.

 

I think if you mixed it with slower destroy (for knights) times that in build... 182? (I always forget!), I'd be a very nice change allowing knights to slowly chip away at damaged walls, without being able to say..
Plow through a 6-block thick stone wall.

 

But then you get 6 knights together and they're through your entire castle in a matter of seconds.
Forcing you to have to purchase bombs or protect a builder while he rushes the front is a great change if ya ask me.

 

Agreed, I hated how as a builder defending a tower was impossible. Now, if you're a knight and standing at a wall doing nothing, waiting for a builder, why? Any one of you can run back and change to builder. You should be prepared to change classes to keep the balance right. I think this is what causes most teams to lose; unbalanced class distribution.

If you just want to play knight or combat classes, then you can play on a deathmatch server.

 

I like the way KAG is.

 

Cause if I play as a builder no-one defends me adequately. If I play as a knight I can't be a builder. Relying on crap players sucks.

 

Yeah, the problem is that people have this kind of fixedness or mental set (OH SHIZ PSYCH CLASS), where they see the builder as weak, and are too afraid for the front lines, whereas they see knights as strong. So most players try playing builder defensively, and there are little to no offensive/push builders.

Ultimately it's a problem with the mentality people have, but the system itself is very cool and intuitive I think.