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BUILD 1215 - Rebalance and Fix Central

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by Geti, Aug 15, 2014.

  1. Potatobird

    Potatobird Haxor Forum Moderator Mapping Moderator Tester Official Server Admin

    Messages:
    777
    Man, not sure how I feel about this one. Knight combat changes sound great (on paper), but I'm worried about how jabstun will affect archers (and builders) trying to juke/run - jabspam could be an effective and brainless way to stop them.(more)
    Jab stun sounds really good in knight v knight combat, but could make them even stronger at killing the other classes. And I guess they're supposed to be able to mow the other classes down, and were already mostly able to, but if they can stun them instantly while doing it, they wouldn't even have a chance to run... just a thought, we'll see how that turns out.

    I like the special arrow change idea. Now maybe make it so the first shot of a legolas is normally accurate? (Or is that already the case?)

    Reduced stun range, okay... not sure. People have been saying knights mobility is reduced, but only really vertically. And who cares about vertical arrowstun?

    Border changes... what's better, balance and teamwork, or the power of flight?
    I might get kind of claustrophobic with the border, and although I guess there's a need to prevent the double bombjump being able to rocket over any structure, isn't that what the shield change is for? Making high jumps more dangerous? I'll also really miss those moments when your bomb clashes with an enemy's and someone goes flying, only to fall back to Earth 10 seconds later.
    I'll also miss the blue sky, maybe there should just be a red box or something that flashes when you try to go out of the border?

    Platform changes, thank god they're flammable, but I actually want the wonky grapple mechanics back (but not the "grapple through them" bug). It was kind of fun trying to grapple up those, a nice little challenge. I can understand if that's what was causing the mine bugs, though.

    I'm not sure why you're worried about archers being stronger in this patch, they got only nerfs, and the knight nerfs wouldn't affect their interactions with archers.

    ---
    More general wall o' text
    My biggest problem with this update is the ceiling. I know you guys want to make this game more team based and not have lone knights just bouncing over the tallest towers possible (gravity) and being one man armies, but imo there are better ways to nerf that "one man army" knight. You already changed their shield gliding to make it worse at vertical cushioning (great idea imo), why also cap their height? Could it be possible to nerf just the shield cushioning part to the point where there's no need for the ceiling? Bombjumping is one of my favorite parts of this game, so I'm kind of scared of change in that area.

    Do you actually want to get rid of the one man army knight? I ask because I'm not sure if that's your intention or not. If increasing teamwork means getting rid of the possibility of one very skilled knight leaping over buildings and wreaking havok (and I'm not saying that it does), I'm honestly not sure if that would make the game more fun.

    Sorry for the rants, I may have made it sound like I am dismayed and think this game is ruined but really the changes weren't too major. There were a lot of good improvements as well, and I love the tips! (my water bombs are ready if I encounter any of these "Arcraves" you speak of)
     
    101i, SirCharizard and TheAverageMan like this.
  2. Snake19

    Snake19 RIP Staff Alumni Donator
    1. [AG#] - Ancient Gear

    Messages:
    439
    I am shocked seeing this Update! The fixes have come too late, and I do not understand why they haven't come earlier.

    The nerf to climb the walls with the shield, and the slash spam had to be fixed before they got known! Not after they have been used for the past 3 months!

    This update will make old players (rage)quit the game!

    I do not feel it is a smart decission! I know this is the testing phase, but I also know you do not defer the glitch shield against the walls although it was easily countered!

    If you want my advice you should not always listen to the new players, who will not stay more than a week, but to the older players who have been here for several years.

    I want to remind you that back at the time the "bomb jump" was a glitch, this glitch was so appreciated that you decided to keep it.

    Why not the shield glitch?

    But the worst thing about this update is the speed of jabbing. New players in KAG have become way stronger as the experienced players now, because they jab spam. This is nonsense!

    Winning a duel by jab spamming 1 vs 1?! Nonsense!

    Is it normal to you that all the best knights quit this game cause of this update?

    Some of the things you've changed have existed for months!

    You've already done the alpha and every update 2/3 of the players ragequit.

    Do you remember the number of people that played when KAG was just out? On alpha?

    Why do you think there always came fewer and fewer people?

    Excuse my rage but I'm really disappointed in this update

    best regards
    Snake
     
  3. Rayne

    Rayne ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ Administrator Global Moderator Forum Moderator Tester

    Messages:
    1,916
    most of these changes were requested by older players in the testing group
    because they're trying to make buildings matter again, this glitch counters that.
    I agree that the jabs could be slowed down a bit, but it's far from jab spam winning everything, slashes are still plenty powerful and you can just shield it to stun their jabs.
    want to name some? a lot of very skilled knights enjoy this update.
     
    Galen, SirCharizard, Trumbles and 5 others like this.
  4. Noburu

    Noburu Dirty, DRUNK, Hillbilly Forum Moderator Donator Tester

    Messages:
    1,809
    Jab spam is a thing again? I'm so jabbing all of your eyes out this weekend!
     
    FuzzyBlueBaron and Apronymous like this.
  5. Fuzzle

    Fuzzle Grand Grumbler

    Messages:
    297
    I couldn't agree more, @Snake19
    I quit.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2014
    Asu likes this.
  6. Snake19

    Snake19 RIP Staff Alumni Donator
    1. [AG#] - Ancient Gear

    Messages:
    439

    1) then it must be the old who could not properly use the glitch

    2) The glitch shield can easily be blocked by making 3 blocks extra on a tower. I do not see how it interferes with the gameplay by how easily it is countered.

    3) if you want a list of a few players who are leaving or planning to leave:

    Fuzzle, Cuci, Lumeos, Damocle, Me

    (these are people I often rubs shoulders, but I am sure there are many more!)

    and I might not name any individuals in the alpha because there are lot like "Afterlife & Hunk"

    Since these members are very good friends with many other KAG players, a lot of them will follow their example and leave as well to find a new game, which will result in major loss of experienced and loyal players.

    Best Regards
    Snake
     
    Spirits-Reaper, Irou and Fuzzle like this.
  7. RogueCupcake

    RogueCupcake Haxor Official Server Admin

    Messages:
    248
    I don't know if I like this build or not... there are some good changes but some I don't like, mainly the knight ones.
     
    TheAverageMan likes this.
  8. xRush101

    xRush101 Shipwright
    1. Zen - [Zen] - (Invite Only)

    Messages:
    49
    Sorry for the wall of text here but...

    I'm going to have to disagree with you guys here. Playing as a knight was never "rushing in and recklessly using slash" and every skilled knight here would agree with me. Why? Because a skilled knight isn't going to just jump in and start slashing away. A skilled knight is going to stand back,wait and think when the best time to strike is to go and strike and then go in for the kill. The knights that just rush in are the ones that are going to die most frequently. (And that's something every knight should know)


    I've played the new build and this is what I've observed:

    People are complaining that knights can just hop right in front of you and start spam slashing you. I believe the problem is not the knight mechanic but the player himself who's being attacked. As a knight you should be constantnly thinking of ways to give yourself an advantage over enemy players. If an enemy knight is able to get you in a position where he's able to start slashing away at your shield, that is nobody else's fault but your own. As a knight, you should have been thinking of ways to prevent that from happening and if an enemy knight is able to put you in that position, he deserves that kill. Getting spam slashed doesn't even mean you have a 100% chance of dying. There are multiple ways to get yourself out of that position and every skilled knight here will agree with me saying that. One way is by using your shield effectively thus giving you some time to distance yourself. It's the un-skilled knights who don't know how to use their shield effectively that end up losing slash battles. Another way to get out of a slash battle would be to jab. Right after a knight slashes you and you block with your shield, there is a small opportunity for you to jab then quickly and shield again unscathed. If you were able to do this really well, then you could actually kill the knight that is attacking you. This was this case in the previous build.

    This is the problem with the new jab stuns. If I'm obviously at the advantage and I'm taking down an enemy slashing to get the kill and he's just able to just jab stun me multiple times at once killing me, it's really frustrating because it's obvious that I should have gotten the kill. That knight put himself in a vulnerable position. I saw that and took advantage of it by going in for the kill yet he still survives and kills me because with the new jab mechanics all you have to do is shield whoever is attacking you and then gang bang them with jabs.

    Jabs should not be an effective way of killing people. Jabs should be a quick maneuver used to deal a small amount of damage and finish off enemies.

    /rant
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2014
    Kabouter123 and Fuzzle like this.
  9. TheDirtySwine

    TheDirtySwine Haxor Staff Alumni Donator

    Messages:
    818
    *I have not tested this build yet*
    If jab spamming becomes a problem why don't you make jabs do half a heart. This still allows for unique combat but it's not as rewarding for the inexperienced player that jab spams.
     
    Sinleet and Klokinator like this.
  10. Rayne

    Rayne ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ Administrator Global Moderator Forum Moderator Tester

    Messages:
    1,916
    i cant properly use the glitch? dont tell me what i'm capable of, because it makes you look like a prick. the glitch allowed for knights to get over many structures that should've been fine to block them out, you need to think, cost and reward. the builder spends x amount of materials building a tower, you should spend x amount of effort to get over it. climbing a wall without any cost is not balanced, the reason the game was so terrible because of one class being able to one-man everything, there's practically no reason for a decent knight to use teamwork when they're able to slash spam everything to death.

    if you and those players cant adapt to changes that are good for the game, then i wouldnt consider you skilled, just used to the mechanics. a skilled player would be able to adapt to anything that comes their way, so far the only people i've seen bitching are "pros" who like to slash spam everything.

    bringing up the alpha players that left doesnt make sense in context with the newer updates, quit being bitter.

    and i'm going to say it again, have you even tried the patch? jab spamming only really works if you let them trap you in close quarters, and even then you can just shield it, it's so easy to just press rmb to stun them, then counterattack. if you cant adapt to that i dont think you can claim to be good at the game.
     
    Noburu, 8x and Auburn like this.
  11. Rayne

    Rayne ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ Administrator Global Moderator Forum Moderator Tester

    Messages:
    1,916
    except that you can just shield their jab to stun them, he used his reaction skills to jab at you, use your reaction skills to block it.
     
  12. ParaLogia

    ParaLogia tired Administrator Global Moderator Forum Moderator Tester Official Server Admin

    Messages:
    1,133
    I really like the addition to the tent. A good tribute.

    ss (2014-08-15 at 05.12.48).png
     
  13. Klokinator

    Klokinator Such Beta
    1. Aphelion's Roleplay

    Messages:
    1,443
    I have thoughts on virtually every addition in this build, so here are my thoughts before actually playing the build.



    The vast majority of the changes made me a happier person :)
     
  14. Fuzzle

    Fuzzle Grand Grumbler

    Messages:
    297
    @Rayne are you even playing the game?
     
    Frogskin likes this.
  15. Rayne

    Rayne ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ Administrator Global Moderator Forum Moderator Tester

    Messages:
    1,916
    i play almost every day, who are you to question that?
    sorry if i upset you, but what i say is true, these changes are good for the game, and you're just whining because you cant abuse broken mechanics anymore.
     
  16. Klokinator

    Klokinator Such Beta
    1. Aphelion's Roleplay

    Messages:
    1,443
    Omg does hovering your mouse over it bring up a box saying "Kouji is watching you pee"?
     
  17. Rayne

    Rayne ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ Administrator Global Moderator Forum Moderator Tester

    Messages:
    1,916
    so you're saying the devs cant have their game the way they want it because some players like the unbalanced mechanics?

    lol geti wanted a lot of these changes too.
     
  18. Klokinator

    Klokinator Such Beta
    1. Aphelion's Roleplay

    Messages:
    1,443
    [​IMG]

    @Geti, just a heads up, some of the long descriptions that extend to two lines are slightly outside their boxes.
     
  19. Nand

    Nand Arsonist Tester

    Messages:
    64
    @Geti is there anyway of getting a list of script files you updated? I've modified a lot of stuff for Belt Wars and I'd like stuff like my customized knightlogic to reflect the new game changes as well.
     
  20. Shadowor

    Shadowor Shark Slayer

    Messages:
    184
    I don't see what is all the fuss about. The game was about slashing all the time, jumping and rushing down everyone. People raged when I killed them with a jab.
    Finally you have to play smartly and time your slash and jab (jab was hardly used before, while it's a life saver move sometimes). The movement nerfs are also great, you can't just ignore towers with knight anymore but have to make a plan and work together, actually fighting the structure the enemy built for you.
    I tried the update, tested everything new and in my opinion the game became much better. This update was necessary, if you cry and don't like it then leave, real players see the point and are happy for it.