No more burgers (in TDM)

Burgers are great in CTF and TTH, but in TDM the are 100% in a knights favour.

Archers will often die in one attack or will only need a heart to heal, but knights can soak up tons of damage from arrows. Even a point-blank triple will leave them with one heart which they can heal instantly. Fighting a knight 1-on-1 often involves whittling down their health. Hearts to heal are fine as they are limited and only heal one heart, but burgers make it near impossible to kill a high-level knight by yourself.

And that's only if they have the starting number of coins. With two or even three burgers, a knight can take anything you can throw at them while a single mistake will mean instantaneous death.

Edit: @dual_chiecken and @SlamDuncan have come up with a great solution.
Eating burgers would take a while (3-5 secs maybe), leaving the user open to attack. They would either need to retreat to cover or get someone else to defend them. A bar might show the time left, though I suggest a burger sprite in a speech bubble being eaten like this. But from the top. With no dog.

 

Healing items in TDM in themselves are kind of a cheap tactic. I think they should be removed as well, and people should have to fight for spare hearts on the ground.

 

NO

 

Archers can deal up to 3 hearts at once

A good archer can deal 2 hearts of damage to a SKILLED knight per triple shot whilst having 30 arrows

IF YOU WANT A SOLUTION:
Burgers only heal 2 hearts per burger
OR
A burger takes 2 inventory slots

 

Two inventory shots are meaningless. Unless an archer can OHKO a knight (which would be stupid) burgers will always be in favour of knights. Yes, you can deal two hearts of damage, which takes skill. How does the knight recover? He presses the spacebar. That's it.

 

Then do it again?

Archers are way more agile then knights and a good archer can not be caught dealing damage in time

@kodysch @Trumbles

I can go on though, burgers are pretty bad I think they should remove them too but you have to look at the Ups and downs

Archers can deal damage from across the map and some will say that bombs can ruin an archers life they can still be countered by a water arrow

Burgers allow these knights to replenish and hey you can survive a bomb as an archer and eat a burger too

 

I'd like to see them removed as well. The hearts dropped upon death would become more of an incentive to get kills for your team.

 

You do have to take note that

Archers can deal damage across the map at a constant rate
They can burst you for 3 hearts

Archers are not meant to be a tank class that can solo everything

In a usual 1v1 Archer will win as long as you aren't stupid
Without burgers archers can mow down knights from range and up close if you're careful enough with permanent damage,

Think about it does it make sense for a single archer to 1v1 a knight and win

As you continue to degrade the knight

Why have a knight when an archer can 1v1 anything and win

 

Of course it's possible. It's just that it takes way more skill than eating burgers.
I don't mind archers being harder to play 1v1, but the advantage of the burger is ridiculous. Just because one good player can survive a situation doesn't make it balanced.

I have looked at the ups and downs, and you seem to think burgers need to go, but you are still arguing pointlessly. I never said archers should have an equal opportunity 1v1, I only said burgers created a large disadvantage. Archer has many more utilities in CTF and can take cover in towers, so it matters less there.

What is this rubbish about "continuing to degrade the knight". The only thing I have mentioned is about burgers being OP. That's it. Don't try to strawman me.

Also, you have totally contradicted yourself.

If you instead meant that archers are OP then please take your opinion to a class balance thread.
Also, making knights OP via burgers, when archers are allegedly OP normally is stupid.

Also, in what TDM match vs a decent knight have you dealt constant damage over the whole map?

And are archers just meant to be worse than melee units in combat? Even if they were in real life, that has nothing to do with this game. If it was like that at one point in this game there is no reason for it to stay like that. If you are going to continue this argument, please keep this ridiculous bias away form the discussion. You already said burgers sucked, why are you assuming we are all idiots, who do not know to look at advantages vs disadvantages.

Archers killing knights in numerous shots is a fact not an opinion. Combined with burgers this makes knights have a pretty easy time. You admitted this yourself.

I never mentioned opinion that the combat was flawed or unbalanced except in respect to burgers.

This is not Knight vs Archer, this is no more burgers in TDM. Anything to do with burgers is relevant. A balance thread is the last thing I want to go off-topic.

 

No burgers are the equalizer to the fight for knights

An archer without question wins a 1v1 against a knight

I'm honestly sick and tired of reading all these relentless posts to make archer the main tank class

It's the knight for a reason guy
It shouldn't be easy for a archer to single handedly kill a knight with nothing more than the ability to shoot 3 arrows at once

 

Honestly, I think archers should charge a bit slower (~.25 seconds slower), but that's not the point of this thread, really. Even in knight V knight battles, burgers are a bit cheaty if you don't double slash (shield downed).

 

@dual_chiecken
Like I said, it's not an equaliser.
Again, stop with the strawman arguments. There are no posts here advocating archer becoming a tank class. It has been made very clear that the archer class has a high skill curve, it's not easy.
I also think your definition of tank needs a little work. Tank does not mean "better than every other class in combat". It typically denotes a class that takes damage to help other, squishier units. Did I suggest archers should get four hearts? You're the only one who is degrading knights and exaggerating archers.

You know what I'm sick and tired of? People like you making every single balance discussion into a "Archer vs Knight" thing. If you are not going to take this seriously, I suggest you leave.

Read the top of the page. It says "No more burgers (in TDM)". I have said nothing about buffing any classes. This is a thread for a single item in a single mode.

If you have some input regarding how this affects, balance that's fine. But stop insulting me by claiming I want to make archer into a tank class. I don't think archers are OP. Even if they were, making knights OP does not help.

If you say any thing else about archer v knight balance without mentioning burgers (one unrelated sentence at the start does not count) or anything suggesting that anyone else, when they are in fact not, I will just ignore you. If it continues after that, I will get you kicked out of this thread.

 

If you want to flame me go ahead but Removing burgers from TDM degrades knights, I'm not trying to insult anyone im just trying to express another point of view If you cant handle it then that's too bad, and your going to threaten to get me kicked out of a thread?
I don't think I'm the one that's flaming

All I am trying to say is that removing burgers is just another blow to degrade knights, why do you say? because a knight cant block all the arrows flying at them a burger is a replenisher. It should be difficult for an archer to single handedly kill a knight, I don't know what you're picking at

@NinjaCell I'm not trying to be hostile to you.

 

The point being: burgers are almost exclusively useful for knights in TDM. Why should they have the ability to autoheal? Why not an archer? If an archer is skilled enough to get three hearts off a knight to find out he has a burger and he has to do 4 more how is that fair whatsoever? Because he's the self-designated tank class? Come on.

 

Perhaps it's because the archer lays down damage quicker from ranged and up close

It seems we can come to a compromise

What if a burger can heal for 2 or 3 hearts?

 

Still missing the point, chicken. Archers almost always die when confronted, whereas a knight generally has ample time to heal. It doesn't matter the heart amount per say.

 

Then the point I'm trying to make that is Archers deal heavy damage and without burgers knights will perish quickly in the heat of battle

 

Not necessarily. If worst comes to worst, wait for them to waste their arrows.

One slip-up and they're dead.

 

Okay I considered your guys thoughts and with the help of @SlamDuncan we decided that

Burgers could have an eat time
A tiny bar showing up for the time to eat

This should immobilize the said player and not allow them to multitask with them

Thus allowing then to be pummeled in a TDM match whilst they are trying to regen

Should take around 3-5 seconds

Happy @NinjaCell

 

Or it could have a regen effect.

Like the quarters, but a heart per second.