[203] Builder Discussion

Also the overhangs would need to be rather huge to work against those bomb jumpers, it would just make it slightly harder for them to jump at the right place... how about this:





that way it would be really punishing for em to mess up their jump, possibly discourage them from doing it at all

 

before acavado traps i always preferred making finger traps

 

Oh lol its late and I misunderstood. Yeah basically I guess you need to build like you were protecting your rear structures from a cata (high wall/tower) and/or spike the roof.

EDIT: Changed cat to cata LOL

 

This is a clear bug, but many of the things builder do are kinda on the buggish side, even notch-ladders are sorta "buggy" I am pretty sure they gonna fix this sometime, until then its a neat convenience. I wouldn't build too much on it though as it will become outdated for sure.

 

Well I wouldn't worry about the double jump that much tbh. Two bombs is a big investment that could have gone towards breaking down your wall- and even if the guy gets across, what's he going to do? Even if the entire enemy team starts doing it, you were probably gonna lose anyways as one, you're facing a bunch of advanced players, and two, they were probably winning if they had that much cash money to burn.

It's not worth weakening your defenses against plebs just to stop that one guy- especially when there might not even be one of them that game.

The double jump is something I'd save for like a "no lives left" clutch desperate flag cap, not something you'd use often.

 

Exactly. That said you CAN plop down a bomb beside an enemy bomb and still get the double bomb jump effect :D

Requires fast reflexes and a long enough fuse on the enemy bomb for it to not explode before you can drop a bomb and shield.

 

Amen to that. I was going to write rant about narrow windows/flawed doors. I don't know who came up with this idea, but this shit is useless. Even when you have multiple single holes to shoot at different angles, enemy most of the times can change position quicker than you.

What I explained above plus I would personally choose position on the roof (even if this means dealing with spikes).

I depends... I've played on some servers where builders bought me a lot of arrows. Personally I prefer that kind of support rather than fancy towers with limited shooting positions.

EDIT Wyeth: Moved to the builder discussion from "[203] Lack of skilled Archers" as that is what you are mainly talking about. Lets discuss this matter here. It has not a lot to do with the question why archers are lacking in most games.

 

What about this labla:

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Moving the stone a little to the left would give you a lot more variability in aiming while still adding security.

 

Well,if you have a 1-way window in a tower ,and the enemies flow is in front of you +-35 degrees,you can take on 3-6 archers alone!Once I've builded a small wall with window on top of the hill ,went back to spawn,changed class to archer,went back.I killed like 10-12 guys,all on 2 hp before taken out by clever demoknight.

You have an advantage in this situation,why dont you(I mean not exactly you,but all tower-haters archers) use it?Charge arrow,open window,shoot,close window,repeat.You cannot be killed unless there are dozens of archers,which are aiming only at your location or untlil you hold window opened for too long.

Of course,one way window is not that comfortable when terrain isnt suited for that.But when it is - get in,thank engie and enjoy safe shooting.

*Also,I'll try out Wyeth nest - looks good.

 

You came up with idea that narrow window gives you more security against enemy archers. There is one problem with that - it's a sword with two edges. You know what angles you can use by shooting through windows? Good, because I know them too and I'll use that knowledge to my advantage. I can choose position where you won't be able to snipe me or it will be close to impossible.

Second thing, shooting through single block for skilled archer is very ordinary (that's how catapults are taken down most of the times). I'm not alone when it comes to this (another quote from different thread):

 

Shooting "through a single block" is much harder than shooting an open target from a single block.Usually it requires 1-3 shots to finally hit through - and if you are hit,you have to change position and start all over again.

You can say anything,but you won't change my mind on 1 fact : if 2 archers of the same skill duel on the same height,the one with protection -winndow- will win.Although you do have some points I agree with.

 

Yeah, in theory it should work. In practice much of the archers fights occur at different heights. There are two types of narrow windows, good for shooting mid-range (same height) and shooting down. Either way, that is very limiting.

One of the reason why I don't like fixed positions: in my opinion choosing position and maintaining it is one of the archer skills. With narrow windows almost every time not only I'm forced to using one position, but also shooting at very specific range/angle. Playing archer can be boring, sitting behind 1-tile window is just fun-killer in my case. I won't be surprised if that is also case for other archers, so they avoid builder constructions.

 

After playing around with that set up

it suits an all-in-one solution, quick and easy to construct post-building phase. More effective when placed in the middle as an offensive tower, as the upper slit allows counter fire against elevated targets with increased angle/range due to the one block shift brick.
definitely feels better than the previous version, though not sure about other archers. I also like using a standard door one (#1) with a half door for shooting enemies below.

I'm not sure if everyone agrees, the first line tower should have 2-3 sections

• low section - contain a murder hole, facing down. Optional: ~90°
• medium section - at least ~10 blocks higher than the lower section contain at least one murder hole, facing side
• upper section - catapult, sky bridge, vantage point for countering skycata [esp, on small/high maps]
• reaching the stars

Fog of war from trap bridge does give quite a significant advantage against the unwary, achieved by replacing the ladders underneath with trap bridges and filling the room with trap bridge.



EDIT Wyeth: Sure it is correct here, its builder discussion and this is clearly builder related in a way even though you describe what would be useful for an archer?... in any case its not misplaced

I was going to say, it creates a void space [spacing between threat] between archers and knights'. unwary knights in pubs tend to fall for the trap, while spacing more caution ones
attempting to bomb the archers/structure, leading to more opportunity shots and slowing down their assault.
Going to remove it for now though.

 

It works really well.
Expensive as *bleep* though.
Good offensive and defensive tower(more defensive though),I tried it as an archer after I've built it - you have a shooting cone of 75 degrees,and thats scary.
However sometimes you wiggle up and down because of ledges or door glitching but its better than opened terrain and much better than 1 way window.

Edit : Wyeth,could you post your nest design in my thread on archer's hideouts?This one is really effective.

 

i noticed a REALLY less 'effective' way to close 1 block wide of gaps.
if you drop a stone block(like the stone trap) on dirt,the block actually survives the impact.
this cant be used on stone because stone+stone=air.
need to confirm if heights affect the durability loss.