ReBalance mod discussion

I can't believe an experienced archer like you doesn't know how to play without bomb arrows, because I don't have any problems playing without them myself, maybe because I actually try to kill the enemy with my team rather than lone wolf it.

(Also, bomb arrows are part of the "Be annoying and spam arrows?", they're the most annoying arrow to deal with imho)

They are meant to kill, why do you think a half shot does a full heart of damage? They're not meant to be played like knight, it's more of a cat and mouse playstyle whereas knight is more up in your face. The reason they have a grappling hook is to get around enemies/structures and hit them from other angles, which is made 10x more effective by working with your team.

 

Uhh, there might be something wrong with the map cycle on the testing server. Looks like there's just one map, and I don't really think anyone would want to play on it

Spoiler: map

I'm looking forward to trying the changes out

 

Sorry, I was putting it back to what it was before it was hijacked for this since I was testing maps and what was on there before I did so wasn't any new maps but just two I was fucking with even before that, but people weren't doing matches on it, they were simply testing the features, if you want a specific map I can change it back or I'm sure Rayne will see this and do so.

 

That, that sounds awful.

Nobody fucking wants to play inventory tetris.

 

I'll like a lot of what's going on in this thread. Most of the time these types of threads just turn in to flame wars. With people staying stalwart in their unchanging ways that give no feedback to the people trying to help the community. This was mentioned briefly by @Rayne, but we had a discussion about balance with some good points last night that reflected his point earlier.

Bombs have a 64 pixel radius. This seems like a serious problem. It encourages wild spam of bombs without regard to where they go because you are more than likely to get a kill and get some refunded cash back. Dropping this radius even to 48 pixels would be great. Skinney also mentioned that a good idea would be to increase the drag/friction of a bomb so they can't be launched farther than an arrow from the top of a tower.. like really. Knights shouldn't be playing spammy archer with stronger weapons.

In regards to the legolas shot I think the new shotgun is much better than the old legolas shot. Simply because it encourages more aggressive play rather than campy tower stuff. I really don't like the idea of archer begin meant to be campy, It's much more fun to fight aggressive archers as a knight and archer vs. archer. Fire arrow is a great weapon and should be encouraged more. Since people continually spam it at me in fun, jesting, "burn the Witch". I've found it to be an effective weapon, especially against other archers. However it might be good to increase it's damage by about half a heart or so simply because a lot of times that it should get the job done, it just fizzles out for no reason.

 

I'd say that's to do with latency - on your side, he's shielding to the left, but on the server's side he's shielding upwards.

 

So Rayne and I were going through some code with fire to figure out what we could do to improve it. And we found this nugget of gold.

This code stops knights from being set on fire regardless of the direction of their shield. e.i) you can shoot a knight in the back and he wont set on fire. A knight can also stand in a burning building, but as long as they have their shield up they will not take damage from the fire... MFW.

 

new list of proposed changes:
Archer;
1) Archers can now dig through DIRT only, using spacebar.
Reason: give the archers a little more flexibility when it comes to terrain control.
2) Archers can fletch arrows from trees like in classic, using the same mechanic as above.
Reason: quality of life tweak for the archer, isn't hard to code.
3) Fire arrows now deal 2 hearts of damage on hit(full charge).
Reason: gives the archer a bit more combat capabilities through the use of coin.
4) Bomb arrows cost 30g, and deal as much damage as a regular bomb.
Reason: gives the archer a choice, some tile damage, or more player damage, as fire arrows will cost the same but give 2. 60 coins gets you 2 bomb arrows which can break 6 tiles if you aim correctly, which is more damage than the previous 50 coins for 1 bomb arrow, even with the nerfed damage. This raises the skill ceiling with them, as you can't just aim in the general direction of the flag coffin, you need to hit the hole you made with the last arrow.
5) Arrows now deflect bombs as proposed by @BucketEmpty
Reason: sounds pretty cool and easy to do, kudos :) this is a rare enough occurrence so I don't think it'll be too overpowered
6) Bomb Satchel.
Stats: 0.5 hearts of health, damage similar to the old bomb arrows. 5 seconds to explode.
Reason: A more offensive version of the bomb arrow, it is more counter-able, and could be the counter-buff to the bomb arrows that we're looking for, and ultimately it would balance the count of special items between the two classes. The archer shop sells 4 items but 1 of those is the item required for regular attacks.

Builder;
1) Drills take longer to overheat while digging stone/wood built blocks/doors.
Reason: to encourage offensive use of them on enemy towers.
2) Builders do more damage to stone/wood built blocks/doors.
Reason: to take the focus from underground to the surface.

Knight;
1) Bomb radius reduced to 32 pixels(from 64), and for the damage falloff do 1 heart at the edge of the explosion.
Reason: bomb throwing can net a lot of random kills because it has a large explosion range: 64 radius = 128 diameter, 128/8pixelspertile= 16 tiles. This change would make bombs require more precise aim while being more punchy.
2) Velocity gained from bombjumping is more horizontal than vertical.
Reason: Bombjumps would require a tall structure to get over other tall structures, placing more value in builders doing their job.
3) Bomb drag increased.
Reason: Bombs can fly, doesn't make sense.
4) Kegs do not explode when falling from high up, you need to time keg drops now.
Reason: keg drops are often used for defending in pub, being thrown off of your teams tower to destroy an incoming wave of knights and builders, who had a good chance of breaking into the flag. I have seen many pub matches stalemate because some "pro" doesn't want to lose. To change the keg drop from a defensive move to an offensive one, they would explode on impact when launched from a catapult while lit.

In General:
1) Heart drop rate changed to 50% from 100%.
Reason: to prevent snowballing by "pro" players. If you want consistent heals, carry some food in your inv(which limits your special item count).
2) Top two blocks of the map can be built on.
Reason: to help with building on smaller maps.
3) Boulders now do damage based on velocity.y, pointblanking people with them is no longer possible.
Reason: being insta-killed by a boulder after a 1 tile drop is complete bullshit, now you need to make the boulder fall faster than 6.0f to cause insta-kills.