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Fix the auto balance, please!

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Chiguireitor, Nov 22, 2011.

  1. Chiguireitor

    Chiguireitor Shopkeep Stealer

    Messages:
    62
    As it is right now, auto balance should be called "anti pwnz" or "anti fun"... Every single time i'm playing on a team and FINALLY i'm on the winning team, i get killed and the auto balancer switchs me to the losing team...
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    [​IMG]

    That should not be... auto balancing should be applied ONLY to incoming new players, not to players already on the game...

    As a side effect, addressing this should fix most griefing that's ocurring actually when people gets angry from being switched from the other team.
     
  2. Wonkyth

    Wonkyth More precious than carbuncles! Donator Tester

    Messages:
    1,350
    Yeah, whatever.
    I'm tired of people complaining about auto-balance.
    How does auto-balance harm your ability to have fun in ANY WAY?!
    This isn't counterstrike. If you're suddenly pitted against the best players in the game, that were just on your team, it doesn't kill your ability to kill them. For goodness sake, peoples! I could go on about this, giving you one hundred and one reasons why constantly complaining about this is retarded, but I have better things to do. Good day, sir.
     
  3. Neat

    Neat King of the Dead Donator Tester

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    1,958
    Wonkyth. I disagree. Being on one team for a while then being switched is utterly unfair. You get given the chance to bond with your team and grow to like them, working with them, building for them, trading items. Then you have to fight them. Consider a builder who has spent an hour building elaborate useful buildings for his team. I'm sure he won't be happy to find he's going to have to try and knock them down. It's just not fun at all.
     
    Rainbows likes this.
  4. Wonkyth

    Wonkyth More precious than carbuncles! Donator Tester

    Messages:
    1,350
    Pro-tip: hate your own team more.
    It makes it impossible to get stupidly attached to your teammates.
    Also, I love knocking down buildings, especially the knock-resistant ones I build. Considering the number of griefers there are, I'm surprised people don't love being auto-balanced so that they can wipe out their own creations.

    Either way, I see KAG as a team game, where both sides are the same team: working together to have fun.
     
  5. Neat

    Neat King of the Dead Donator Tester

    Messages:
    1,958
    Wonkyth, I know you like TV tropes, so i'll give you a quote:

    "Your mileage may vary"

    As in, your idea of fun is not necessarily the same as another persons idea of fun. My idea of fun is the one listed above. At the very least the autobalancer should be able to configured server-side. Not everyone likes to be switched after a long time on one team. In fact it's painfully obvious a lot of people hate being switched for genuine reasons.
     
    Wonkyth likes this.
  6. Geti

    Geti Please avoid PMing me (poke a mod instead) THD Team Administrator Global Moderator

    Messages:
    3,730
    Server owners can turn it off with autoassign_teams afaik, though I haven't tested it or looked at that part of the code enough to be able to confirm it.
     
  7. Chiguireitor

    Chiguireitor Shopkeep Stealer

    Messages:
    62
    Wonkyth... i was playing for hours on one team, then we severely pwned another team (after 6-8 matches of losing) and they were bad losers and began leaving, next thing i know, i'm with those guys and they don't have any more spawns (while my team had around 30 left).... That really is anti climatic.... really

    EDIT: For the record, i try to keep my K/D ratio above 1... and almost every time i'm killed at those last moments is because the knight push didn't work out or a stray arrow hit me as a builder, so please, bear with me, i really like to play with my team, whoever are them, and not with the guys i'm against on that moment.

    EDIT 2: And like you, i don't really like the griefers... in fact, if i spawn on the opposing team (read that, SPAWN... i hate auto balance only when i can't spawn anymore and my team had 30 lives left) i take advantage of my previous knowledge to beat the crap out of my former team.

    EDIT 3: And contrary as to what you say... i really LOVE this game when i'm pitted against experienced players because that really pushes me to improve my performance (i'm no kiddo, as you may guess). I like a lot of games that can be catalogued of being insanely hard (i.e. super meat boy) and really like when my achievements get rewarded with real results, because i can't dedicate much hours of my week to games like i did when young.

    Taking this into account, i can't afford to dedicate several hours getting attached to a team or a clan, and i try to do my best team work even if i'm with a bunch of noobs that ask how to change classes. That's exactly why i really hate it when i get switched from my team when i was organizing an attack (and probably got killed by an stupid arrow while i was typing). Really Wonkyth, teamplay is the core of this game, and being all "i hate when people complain..." about these real issues isn't the way to go. As i said on another thread, i really like MM's games (loved Soldat! even when it was deatmatch only) and obviously i really like this one, but please, don't get comfy with the current state of affairs because your view on the gameplay is different.
     
    Neat likes this.
  8. Chiguireitor

    Chiguireitor Shopkeep Stealer

    Messages:
    62
    Yes, but the "auto balance" should be a login affair only... Players that are playing already shouldn't get autobalanced!!!
     
  9. Geti

    Geti Please avoid PMing me (poke a mod instead) THD Team Administrator Global Moderator

    Messages:
    3,730
    Sucks just as much as getting swapped when you're on a team that's 2v5 and noone will swap over. I agree that it's unfun and we'll likely add an end-of-match team-scrambler option as an intermediate but it's honestly not very high priority at the moment with IGF in full swing and our roadmap full as anything - I'll have a look into it if I get some down time though.
     
  10. Chiguireitor

    Chiguireitor Shopkeep Stealer

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    62
    Thanks.. really... from one indie to another :)
     
  11. Arrunas

    Arrunas Shopkeep Stealer

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    36
    Soldat has other modes now? man, i have not actually played soldat in years and wasn't even aware of new modes?

    once i didn't have a ready set up college network populated by my fellow procrastinators i lost a bit of interest...

    On topic however, I fully agree with the auto balance needing a little work. It is really irritating when, as stated above, you have spent time building defenses to take advantage of the location or of other things people on the team have made.

    Or, as in my experience happens more often, towards the ends of the games when the final pushes are being made i find that i will charge in with the other members of the team that i've spent the whole game playing with. We will be winning and so people on the other team are deciding to leave because its near the end of the round and they figure they cant win and so because of this i am switched to a losing team that is having the base invaded so all you can do is charge headlong in and wait for the round to finish.

    Personally this happening every now and then is cool, loving the under dog and all that but more often than not it is hugely frustrating and just leads to me leaving the game.

    sadly though i can see the reverse as well, its never good when one team is drastically higher or lower in numbers so its a hard one to call.
     
  12. Chiguireitor

    Chiguireitor Shopkeep Stealer

    Messages:
    62
    This could be solved if the auto balance happened on new games too. That would make the auto balancing just in two moments:
    • When a new player connects, he/she gets automagically asigned to the team with the lowest numbers.
    • When the game ends, both teams are auto balanced.
    Out of that, auto balancing is a griefer's excuse or a rage-quitter reason.
     
  13. Foxodi

    Foxodi KAG Guard Tester

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    433
    While it can be frustrating to get team switched to a totally useless team that lacks workshops and has towers with doors in them 30tiles high; for the most part I don't really care when I get team switched, instead I try to relish the opportunity to change the tide of battle.
    Then again, I wonder if there's a need for an auto balance; as this game is deathmatch, and defenders do get a significant boost in k/d ratios you could just bomb the hordes of enemy outside your base and turn their number advantage into a weakness.
     
  14. Chiguireitor

    Chiguireitor Shopkeep Stealer

    Messages:
    62
    Again, that's not the problem, i really like when i spawn on another team when there are infinite lives. But in a limited life match, when the opposing side has already lost and my team had 30 lives left, it is pretty frustrating to not be able to finish the game on the team you were and instead wait sometimes even 15 minutes for the match to finish.
     
  15. Foxodi

    Foxodi KAG Guard Tester

    Messages:
    433
    Oh yes, that is retarded. Last update made it so you can't join a team with no lives left, yet I am constantly autobalanced to the team with no lives. This does need fixing :)
     
    BlueLuigi likes this.
  16. BlueLuigi

    BlueLuigi :^) Forum Moderator Donator Tester

    Messages:
    3,620
    I don't want to sound elitist or something here, but when playing with pubs sometimes, you can really make the difference, and sometimes you get to the point where you are basically singlehandedly making runs with bombjumpsor whatever to the enemy's flag, and can end it with a lucky run, get switched, and now have to work against the structures you made, it's very infuriating, especially for builders. "Oh hey I made this, and it works well, now I have to get to it and disable it". It is so, very, very annoying.
     
    Jackard and Neat like this.
  17. antimattergizmo

    antimattergizmo Shipwright

    Messages:
    11
    I 100% agree that this really hurts builder (like I sometimes am) that are trumping a teams poor defense and even has a close tower near it with shops and OPs and catas and gets hit by and arrow that should have been blocked by the knight that just walked away, then being on the other team and (for me because I'm piss poor) relising there is no hope for yoou to come out of it without looking like you ahd been on the crappy team the whole match.
    All in all, chigs auto-balance idea has iit spot-on
     
  18. Geti

    Geti Please avoid PMing me (poke a mod instead) THD Team Administrator Global Moderator

    Messages:
    3,730
    Yeah, the autobalance should be off when either team has entered sudden death. That can be sorted out fairly easily.
     
    Chiguireitor and Wonkyth like this.
  19. Monsteri

    Monsteri Slower Than Light Tester

    Messages:
    1,916
    I think that the teams should be shuffled and balanced only when game ends.
    And joining people forced to teams with fewer people.

    Then it'd be fine.
     
  20. illu

    illu En Garde! Donator Tester

    Messages:
    737
    And while we're at it: Pls allow rconed players to change the teams as they wish. It's quite annoying not being able to hunt a griefer because the server doesn't let you join the other team. [​IMG]