Devlog Build 1500

This system is actually implemented on BC flat map right now. I don't especially like it tbh. I've fallen in team saws, not been able scale up walls using that system and other things come up. It does have some benefits. But I don't think adding that functionality really helps so much as it just changes where the problem is. In the words of patrick star, "Lets push it somewhere else."



I think it's better to just have the current problem then change where the problems are.

 

It still does not exist in vanilla. Its a mod on flatmaps. I'm talking about making them act as doors for friendly team, but in vanilla KAG right now they are impassable.

Re: "now this team-traps" - it still does, if an enemy dies in it they jam the trap block. Take your own advice and add a door.

Re: spoilered image

The ones on the front are a bad way of protecting your base - they cant go over, but it provides protection for builders and to a lesser extent knights to camp and destroy the base of the tunnel.
The one at the back doesn't work well in pub games (95% of the time you end up with a ladder getting built in front of it), you'd be better sinking the stone into a regular block to jump off and an extra block of height on your tower imo.

With trap blocks acting as doors, the front ones work fine (more or less exactly as trap bridges would have acted tbh), and the back one is indeed non-functioning.

- ? dont open them and you'll be fine? They will require you to press the movement button towards them to open them.
- correct
- ? yes you can? they still wont allow enemies to touch them.


Suggestion: I can put up a test server (MM's Test Grounds, EU only unfortunately) tonight to test this change and you can see for yourselves how it works?

It seems there's a lot of different "imaginings" of how they end up working. A lot of it sounds like theory crafting, how about we test it in person?

 

No. Button spam and more mechanics that aren't clear from just walking around dont sound like fun or pub-friendly to me.

 

I guess it's true that enemies would open it, but then at least you've trapped somebody before fixing it. If you could just walk in there anytime a lot more people would get stuck in it - and adding a door there would make a "foothold" in your wall and make it easier to scale. I guess you could put it at the opposite corner, but that also makes it harder to fall into.

You can put a door in almost any trap, but with this change you would basically NEED to put doors in every trap, which kind of limits trap building.

They're obviously not the best, but people in pubs make a lot of slab walls without doors or with really tall doors and that's the quickest and best way to fix the situation.

My point is that change would mess up a lot of stuff, and all it would "fix" is the massive cancer traps. You can already usually just add an exit (or rather, entrance) to those, but this change would require adding an exit to every non-cancer trap as well. I just don't think it's worth it.

 

I don't find this very convincing though. The good builders will always adapt, the newbies are the ones that need help. They've needed help for a long time, and they will always need help because they cycle every day. The population of KAG is currently around 1.3k active per day http://grab.by/HJgO but the turnover on new accounts is crazy (about 60-80 new paid players per day) - where are all those players going?
People have been asking for things to help keep new players repeatedly, but when I go to make a change focussed squarely on making the game easier to understand for new players, to help prevent them pissing off good players and getting shouted at and discouraged, it gets shouted down.
I find it especially curious as it's a change that goes directly towards trap blocks working almost the same as the trap bridges everyone requests like they're hotcakes.

I saw it as a way to give you guys the trap bridge blocks you've been requesting without encroaching the platform's niche, without giving new builders yet another block to screw up, and without

Example of a completely viable forward wall with "door" traps - can get in through the front door trap, spikes make wall running a pain, easily expanded etc. I dont think it's some "dead end" "casual only" block.

The desperation in your voice is clear.
Trap bridges were removed to reduce the viability of vertical entrances to bases - since their removal 100s of mechanic changes have made it so that vertical entrances are still the superior option.
The implementation details of trap bridges were also something we found unsavoury, which I'll get into in a bit.
Unfortunately there are a lot of things preventing vertica exits from ever being a less attractive option; needing to roughly triple fall damage, make vertical travel structures fragile, and interfere with vertical mobility of at least one of the combat classes being the major ones. As such, I'm not against having something fill the trap bridge niche, but I'd rather not have yet another wood structure to spam, not have something that can be easily turned against you by the enemy (as trap bridges could be, and as trap blocks can now), and ideally make it idiot friendly.

I believe that these blocks bring most of what you want from trap bridges (vertical movement, team bridging) without some of the less intuitive aspects (enemy converting them, opening 10-wide gaps at a time).

(I also believe that the "cheap horizontal movement" is a diversion ploy - trap bridges #1 use was vertical laddering, followed by acovado traps)


Re: "making the game for casuals" - I dunno if you've noticed but there are a lot of pubs that play this game, and a lot of them play it casually, regardless of whether you're MLG arrow-fencing them or bombjump base-raping them. Rayne and co have identified it as a really serious issue with the current balance, and honestly I'd like to pull a little bit of that into the game, especially before there are any more sales and player spikes - the more players we keep from those spikes the longer you guys can play the game.

Sorry for the bold but these tldrs are likely easier if I point out the important bits.

Either way, will get up a test server with it soon.

 

You can play on MM's Testing Grounds if you want to test out how the blocks work - there are some sprite sync issues but I don't have time to fix them today.

 

I'd say they're mostly new players, and mostly via steam as they tend to log in once and then not again - we should try to change that last part.

I'd like to flatly state that I disagree that trap blocks in their current state are "not broken", in case that wasn't clear. You're allowed to feel differently.

A) We already have a beginner filter and it stinks.
B) A level system is a lot of work on the backend, hard to manage if/how other servers can contribute to the rankings, protect from hacking, etc. Even if it's just for tutorial server unlocking it needs to be safe and secure.
C) everyone will instantly want things tied to any level system thats developed - I'm moving on to Trench Run, I'm not developing a whole new set of unlockable items for KAG.
D) We have something else in mind for a "tutorial" - this is about instant quality of life online for everyone, not about "teaching".


RE: TRAP CHANGES PLEASE READ
I'm happy to take a vote to leave doing/deciding on anything about trap blocks until next update if people are in favour.
It's one less thing for me to fret over and I can just leave the changes on-ice.

All in favour say aye or something along those lines - those opposed say nay or something along those lines, quoting this. Will go by simple majority.