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Changes large and small

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by Geti, Apr 11, 2012.

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  1. Geti

    Geti Please avoid PMing me (poke a mod instead) THD Team Administrator Global Moderator

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    Just to be clear, there won't be "levels". You'll only accumulate stats though doing activities, not LEVEL UP INCREASE YOUR PERKS because that's aids for games and I hate it with a passion.
     
  2. thebonesauce

    thebonesauce All life begins and ends with Nu Staff Alumni
    1. MOLEing Over Large Estates - [MOLE]
    2. The Ivory Tower of Grammar-Nazis

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    So there isn't gonna be avatar strength in Overworld either? Because anyone can sit and grind for hours on end to get the best stats... Thank fuck!
     
  3. keyofdoor

    keyofdoor Haxor

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    I bet you there will be Exid clones, who maximize their stats using secret items in the game, and whatwhatinthebutt all of us.
    Though, having armor made of my enemies would be awesome, speaking of , will we be able to boost our stats with equipment?
     
  4. BoiiW

    BoiiW Shark Slayer

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    So how is the progress on Overworld? It's still coming right?
     
  5. TheFilip

    TheFilip Ballista Bolt Thrower

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    Have my babies.
     
  6. kiro

    kiro Garde KAG Donator Tester

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    Increasing farming skill when farming = awesome.

    Increasing fighting skill when farming = WTF IS THIS SHIT.

    But most game use the second option. Killing 100 monsters with my axe increased my "intelligence" stat, wut ?
     
  7. It originally appeared in first computer RPGs which were based on paper RPGs. In a paper RPG it's hard to count increasing stats so you just give away points after leveling up. Sadly not many computer games replaced that system with something more proper.
     
    FuzzyBlueBaron and Beef like this.
  8. BlueLuigi

    BlueLuigi :^) Forum Moderator Donator Tester

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    3,620
    "I kill more so I know more about killing", that's stupid too though now isn't it.

    Killing 120 guys doesn't make me know more about killing than someone who kills 100 guys,not every time.
    There are much better systems for something like this, specifically a bit trigger system semi-random perhaps that is triggerable by certain 'moves', I had read something that would work as a good base for this on bay12.
     
    FuzzyBlueBaron likes this.
  9. forax

    forax Arsonist

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    37
    maybe there will be zombies in overworld,that come at night?
    or stats may be saved?
    But then?max stats must be 100,
    and each class shoud cost more,
    and each stat should be more hard to get,
    and on,and on...
     
  10. Ostricheggs

    Ostricheggs Shipwright

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    120
    Whoa nessy, everyones talkin stats like it's supposed to be some super realistic kind of thing.

    I don't give a flyin fuck if jumping increases my intelligence so long as it works out as a fair, balanced and fun mechanic. The best games I've played aren't realistic. KAG is one of them ;D
     
  11. shai-hulud

    shai-hulud Shipwright

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    13
    ...I still don't think "use a whitelist" is a solution. But I'm glad at least that you have seen the problem. Once respawn with a "perma-death" penalty comes in, I think a lot of the crazy unit hoarding will go away. I also think team stockpiles will make it a lot easier to share gold and items. What I have noticed though, is that many of the builders never want to fight. I really think you underestimate how many people want to be playing 2D minecraft. It would probably be better to just let them do that, at least on the War and Overworld servers. Sun Tzu in The Art of War suggested that you need at least a 2-1 ratio of noncombatants to soldiers to maintain proper logistics, and that's not counting the infrastructure back home. The odds of getting those kinds of ratios is unlikely, even on a whitelisted server, I feel. The buzzsaws are probably a step in the right direction, because I'm betting that without things like mechanization of labor, you're never going to get the productivity needed for an actual economy to form organically from trading. Economies form because of the supply and demand of labor/services. Don't underestimate how many people would like to provide those services if they were allowed. There has to be a way to make the sharing of larger infrastructure nodes/objects and providing of finished goods self-evidently rewarding enough that players will intuitively grasp the sharing of structures and resources without having to design a special rule to force them to or kicking out everyone who doesn't get it yet.

    I guess what I'm saying is this; You want to have a medieval themed castle game. But as larger infrastructure becomes required, you will get people who really want to build that infrastructure, and people who really don't want to. When you start forcing the players to do jobs they hate they will just resent you for it. You want people to build giant castles, but the way the game is played won't let them. Whitelisting isn't really a solution, it just moves the problem out of sight.
     
    NinjaCell, AnRK, Blindsight and 4 others like this.
  12. Neat

    Neat King of the Dead Donator Tester

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    1,958
    Just want to go ahead and say this guy hit it dead-on. Relying on whitelisting is like saying "Each half of our game is boring to half the population. So we'll just match people together so that it fits." I think you need to try and make it so the majority of people who play this game actually want to do any and all roles, even if only a little bit.
     
    NinjaCell and BlueLuigi like this.
  13. Geti

    Geti Please avoid PMing me (poke a mod instead) THD Team Administrator Global Moderator

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    3,730
    Glad people like the fact that there wont be levels. (Need to talk to you, Blue about those systems and how they'd be applicable.)

    Re:whitelisting - that wasn't my point - I didn't mean whitelisting of servers and some PvE servers and some PvP servers - I meant generally whitelisting to keep people who bothoard or grief out of the game. I'm honestly sick of having to insert unfun mechanics (team cannot collapse tiles near spawn as the prime example - there've been times where i've needed to drop a slab of blocks on an approaching front of enemies only to have the block replaced by the antigrief) just because griefing happens, I'd rather remove the griefers and be done with it.

    I completely agree that the roles have to be fun, but the point is that some people simply dont like playing a support military role, and some people dont like playing an offensive role, and some players have a ton of fun in those roles. There are people who hate building, and there are minecrafters. We're going to try to cater to all of those within a cooperative team - we dont _want_ to force anyone into a role they dont want to play. Team stockpiles are a fundamental part of the 3 base classes being gatherers, so units can mine stuff and drop it off for others to build with. We're working on designing the classes so that the gatherers play something PvE-like while gathering resources so that those who need the STR or DEX points early on aren't forced into something they hate. Those who want to play legos as a builder wont actually have to do the gathering part if they dont want to. The military (while initially fueled by graduated miners and choppers) is most likely to be largely migrant populated so that the players focussing on playing the military dont have to think too much about the economy unless things are getting bleak or they're dying too much. Hopefully it'll end up playing like a very collaborative RTS where each player only has so much influence (-> newbies dont weigh down the team too much but can still contribute).

    It seems we're arguing the same point of view here, no?
     
  14. thebonesauce

    thebonesauce All life begins and ends with Nu Staff Alumni
    1. MOLEing Over Large Estates - [MOLE]
    2. The Ivory Tower of Grammar-Nazis

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    I don't know about the rest of yall, but since you're not locked into a specific class, I'm gonna be a jack of all trades. Miner, chopper, knight, archer... ALL DAT SHIT. Switch around on the fly.
     
    NinjaCell, BoiiW and Geti like this.
  15. keyofdoor

    keyofdoor Haxor

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    679
    While you do that, I'll be working on getting God's armor, and become a God myself.
     
  16. thebonesauce

    thebonesauce All life begins and ends with Nu Staff Alumni
    1. MOLEing Over Large Estates - [MOLE]
    2. The Ivory Tower of Grammar-Nazis

    Messages:
    2,554
    And then I'll suffocate you in an impenetrable stone box since you won't be able to break through. WINK WINK

    But for real, I'm kind of a jack of all trades in game already; I play whatever class is necessary at the time, so I like that Overworld will play much the same way.
     
  17. shai-hulud

    shai-hulud Shipwright

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    It looks like, yes. And I'm glad you took time to answer my questions. Now that I'm not worried, I can go back to lurking again.
     
    NinjaCell, FuzzyBlueBaron and Geti like this.
  18. Jamburglar

    Jamburglar Horde Gibber

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    239
    Most likely on my server, I'll require some sort of character development roleplay when you advance from, say, a miner to swordsman. You'll need a reason. Could be anything, as long as it makes sense.

    Anyways, I hope there's much configuration to fit each servers style. Not sure what the gain rate of stats will be, but it would be nice to be able to change the amount required to be a certain class, as well as the rate in which you gain them and the maximum amount you can obtain. Will be useful for servers that want a longer and deeper play style. I imagine Overworld "wipes" spanning, at the most, months on end. Once roleplay becomes stale and everyone's become retardedly powerful, we'd wipe the server and start fresh. New world, new characters, new adventures to unfold.
     
    Beef and FuzzyBlueBaron like this.
  19. keyofdoor

    keyofdoor Haxor

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    679
    I should be able to use a bomb to shoot fire, like I do now.
    Just make the world extrememuch more difficult once everyone maxes out.
    Oh, and to Geti, what are your thoughts about Steampunk styles?
     
  20. Geti

    Geti Please avoid PMing me (poke a mod instead) THD Team Administrator Global Moderator

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    Read the devlog. Half of you server owners should probably be all like :D for the next few months.

    KeyofDoor: steampunk isn't really my thing. It can be done well and when it is it's cool and all, but I'm not enraptured.
    Shai: no worries, cheers for posing your worries frankly.
     
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