[371] General archer discussion

Discuss being an archer, in general.

Hey you. Yeah you. Remember, as per the rules, when continuing discussion into another build, specify the number of the build you are referring to. Vastly outdated conversation may be archived and very specific conversations may be moved to their very own thread.

The build number of this thread will be updated to the current build. No new discussion threads will be created, but you can use the number as a reference while creating your own. That way you do not need to look it up everytime you want to create a new thread.

starting off discussion at

Spoiler: BUILD 349-353 CHANGELOGS

https://forum.kag2d.com/threads/build-353-released.5501/

Links to newer builds (Click the newest!):
> GOTO Build 354-360
> GOTO Build 360-370

 

I just want to state here, Archer Stomping Damage is back. Yes archers will fall from trees and break your shield/hurt you now once again. It is also entirely possible to do the ol' charge up drop down hit with arrow (break shield or stun) and then do the stomp. This is gonna be a good build for archers, at least for the ones skilled enough to once more use these techniques.

 

A good point about spamming arrows, but then again, a defensive knight is a slow one, which gives you plenty of time to call your knight buddies or decide what you're going to do when he comes closer.

 

I didn't mean to destroy it! Farm coins for your knight bros' bombs silly!

 

Build discussion continuing at 360 no scope. Discussion from this point forward is automatically counted toward this build. Check out the change logs here.

Spoiler: BUILD 354-360 CHANGELOGS

> This is not right, I am scared! Bring me back to the headpost where its safe!

 

You know this but for those who dont....you can take arrows out of teammates or yourself....good way to get arrows when you behind a knight and archers are shooting "in your general direction".

 

Oh pffft, yeah that's right. Yeah there really isn't a reason for that: the protocol for these discussion threads is post changelogs as checkpoints for all discussion threads asap but in retrospect it would seem better just to allow specifying build numbers to do their work. Wyeth feel free to override this.


EDIT Wyeth: Well if nothing changed it doesn't matter. Its just to show that the build has changed as this point. It doesn't necessarily mean that what you are saying needs to be on the new build. Its just for orientation. You should always simply state that its something from the previous build that doesn't seem possible anymore if thats the case. If nothing changed there is no reason to remark anything for users, since there is no different between last and this build for the current discussion, but if later on people drop in they can see these as "timestamps" and can jump over to the currently actual discussion by clicking the headpost links (that bring you to the checkpoints). Instead of reading through 3 pages of outdated information.

 

Well, IMO archers are pretty OP. Their DPS capability is just off the charts, it's ridiculous how an archer can get above a person and spam kill them as quick as a knight's double slash can with their 1 damage weak arrows. But the trade-off is pretty hefty; as I'm sure we all know, archers drop like two dollar whores on a friday when they don't have the support of their team.

To me there seems to be two problems with archers:

1. They can get an assload of arrows and spam to their hearts content, essentially raining arrows on a battlefield, cutting off access to towers (possible with medium arrows very easily) and just generally raining hell on the guys unlucky enough to not have a counter-archer close enough to harass them.

2. They move like tarzan in trees making them very hard to bring down sans archers or bombs. This isn't a problem in and of itself, but the fact they can spam 1 heart arrows all day long is what makes it 3x worse.

To fix this I think that archers should only be able to carry 30 arrows at a team making it much wiser to pick your shots before you start to spam arrows to choke off an area or dish out absurd damage without repercussions. This seems like an apt solution considering that archers can already pick up arrows off dead players, collect previously shot arrows and harvest arrows from trees, so they wouldn't be arrowless 24/7. They would just have to be more careful in how powerful their shots are in addition to how often they shoot because once they run out they gotta spend the time to grab more.

Finally, one gamebreaking bug for archers is the god damn K/D change bug since it swaps out all the gold you earned as well as your KD. nothin like dying with 100 gold and spawning with 0 (and thereby 0 fucking arrows).

 

I agree with an arrow cap, I find it annoying when archers are spending alot of time trying too collect 100 or so arrows....then they end up dead in a matter of seconds.. the highest a cap should be thought of is 50 anymore is just a wasre of arrows and time...this could also help with people actually working together as a team to hold of a point instead of 1 person

 

Anyone knows if high ping breaks your shield?

Today I was the last player alive versus another player, I was Knight, he was Archer, I just had one heart left, and he just rushed to me spamming arrows, I though it was easy win for me, from his angle he was only able to hit me from top, but somehow my shield was gone and I died...

I tried to ask people what happened but everyone was like "Oh you so mad" "lol nub" etcetera =( (prob because I said first "eh? bullshit!" xC )

 

Considering you had high ping... what you saw on your screen most likely is not what others saw on their screen.

 

for that bug then maybe you should go builder, mine a bit of stone, get gold buy arrows, if its available store that stone in a cata (?)

 

After the 6th time in a game where you're desperately trying to find stone to mine to gather up gold for just a measly bit of arrows (to then go out and kill then come back to get more arrows) AFTER you just killed their entire fucking team and collected approximately 600 coins only to have your KD change when you finally die, it gets a tiny bit frustrating. When I die I sorta expect to have what I earned be present after the fact, especially on a class whose weapon(s) you need to buy.

At times it's gotten so bad that I'll literally go back to the base and hide arrows for when my KD changes

 

this dosent realy have anything to do whit the archer discussion but realy, registering to mantis to report a bug..... thats kind of bad..... its like how section 8 prejudice selected windiws games live as for the online login and orther suff and they restricted the game to some countryes they dont have contact whit it (Romania,Austaraia,-insert here all the baltic peninsula-)...... now im realy geting into details....


Anticipated replyes- I dont give a fuck....

 

Ranged combat has always been the superior tool on the battlefield. It allowed primitive man to evolve and create the modern gun and ammuntition. All sorts of projectiles have been used since the dawn of man. One of the most effective and dated is the Atlatl. A gaint dart/spear thrown with a lever. The bow and arrow came much later; the point is that arrows are dangerous projectiles that dominated the field during the middle ages. The english longbow was the most effective killing machine during that period. Knights have an unlimited melee attack and limited ranged attack (which is also effective against buildings) , Archers have a limited ranged attack. I believe things are fine the way they are. You don't get to have you're cake and eat it too in some circumstances.

 

But it's not fine hoj. You're fallacious in the sense that you're talking in terms of realism in a video game. Real life is realism. I want KAG to be fair, balanced and fun, not realistic! If you want this to be about realism then everyone would "die" in one hit, the knight wouldn't die to anything but bombs and well placed slashes. Builders wouldn't even be a part of the game because builders were never on the battlefield en masse... It would be an entirely different game! C'mon man! This isn't a replicate medieval warfare RTS game. It's a 2d side scrolling game where you gib each other with kegs and bombs and gregs swoop down from the sky to steal up your best player at 0 lives.

All I'm saying is that the ability to spam 1h arrows from short heights should either be greatly limited via a either a minimum height in which you deal the extra damage or a limit on the number of arrows an archer can carry.

If you're talking in terms of realism I think you'd agree with me anyways, as being three feet above someone and dropping an arrow on him won't hurt as bad as a half drawn shot.

 

if this was realistic people wouldn't die in one head, they would likely be still alive if A: didnt be hit in the head or :B head cut off B: took extreme shock. they instead would slowly bleed to death. Knights would vary in how they die from bombs or stabbed through the helmet or a rain of arrow inserted deep within the armor, which will then likely cause them to bleed to death. bombs would be slightly unstable and could possibly blow your hand off. archer would be likely die only to other archers. there would be a stamina bar with each movement requiring different amounts. builders would be likely pushing heaving siege equipments
as a last thought those 'realistic' military shooter are not really realistic at all they are merely sped up through the bleed out of a slow death