Archer Balance [371]

I think it would get much better with this: https://forum.kag2d.com/threads/being-able-to-cut-arrows-with-sword.6176/

 

Not at all, very valid point and very much part of the balancing problem.

Not too sure about slashing arrows though unless there's some major timing involved in it been effective, otherwise you'd have no real need for shielding other then in knight combat. I'm pretty psyched to see what changes are coming with the new patch though, hopefully there will have been decent fine tuning done in this area.

 

Campers ruin everything in every game.
No exceptions.

 

Come on guys, stay on topic. Camping refers to archers staying in their towers, hiding and shooting enemies that are attacking; Or just sitting because they're too afraid to come out. It has nothing to do with actual CAMPING.

 

I think camping is normal for an archer

 

Camping is a symptom of deathmatch games. In any game that rewards kills, a portion of the players will play to win at the expense of fun. Camping, though boring for everyone, is an effective way to rack up kills without getting killed.

In KAG, killing enemies is only intended to be a means to achieve some objective, such as CTF. The tickets system is a workaround to prevent never-ending games, but what the devs inadvertently created is a deathmatch game, in which having the most kills is the surest road to victory. While knights have to go out and fight either way, archers gain more by camping than by attacking. A majority of us seem to have a problem with that.

 

If your castle get attacked camping is normal, I guess

 

Why people keep saying: Hurr archer is op they camp, when:

a) Knights have shield and bombs, being able to bomb jump over the camper's heads, dig, break doors, teabag, etc.
b) Too distant archers can be killed efficiently by other archers with beds and a simple wall with stairs in the team's side.
c) >Catapults
d) >Tunnels
e) There are anti-climbing tower designs (allowing teammates to go across safely and enemy campers to gtfo of your roofs)
f) To be continued...

 

You are stating that camping is boring for everyone, which is, easily enough, not true. Don't make opinions sound like facts.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_longbow#Use_and_performance

I propose an additional meter for archers that represents energy.

Seeing as how they are overpowered, and that fact is historically accurate, they need a nerf, but one that is also historically accurate.

While charging a shot, your energy meter decreases. For every second spent charging, it goes down 10% maybe. If your meter reaches 0% while charging a shot, the arrow is loosed at whatever charge it's at. The energy meter increases by 5% every second after having not fired any arrows for 5 seconds. If you fire a shot before the charge is at least at the halfway point, you suffer an additional 20% energy penalty, because firing arrows that quickly, while possible, is very tiring. Look at this quote, from the link above:

"Most archers would not loose arrows at maximum rate, as it would exhaust even the most experienced man. Not only do the arms and shoulder muscles tire from the exertion, but the fingers holding the bowstring become strained; therefore, actual rates of shooting in combat would vary considerably. Ranged volleys at the beginning of the battle would differ markedly from the closer, aimed shots as the battle progressed and the enemy neared."

See? Archers are supposed to be powerful, they just need a quick tweak is all. Then again, this tweak could take a while. I dunno.




PS: Going to a quarters would replenish your energy, so long as you haven't fired any arrows for 5 seconds.

 

Thank you for weighing in with the pro-camper stance. Please take your seat between the Neo-Nazis and the NAMBLA members.

Let me just remind everyone that the purpose of this thread is to discuss ideas to improve the archer's balance. If you have nothing worth adding, vote in the poll and sit quietly.

 

To help us stay on topic, here is a basic summary of the ideas so far. The first list contains simple nerfs for the archer. The second list contains simple buffs for other classes. The third list contains give-and-take adjustments.

Nerfs:

• Reduce archer's fire rate (no spam).
• Reduce archer's fire power (less damage per shot).
• Reduce archer's effective range (nerf long-range arrows).
• Cap the number of arrows an archer can carry.
• Make arrows more expensive (and/or take longer to harvest).
• Reduce or remove charged arrow stun.

Buffs:

• Increase attacks against building, i.e. with siege weapons.
• Let knights climb ladders while shielding up.
• Sword jab to block charged shots.

Adjustments:

• Glass cannon (make archers powerful, but fragile).
• Give archers the ability to one-hit-kill each other.
• Increase mobility, but decrease fire rate and/or power.
• Add a curve to fire power (i.e. a fully charged shot takes twice as long as a half charged shot; curved, it might take three times as long).

 

You forgot to add "Sword jab to block uncharged shots"

 

AHAHAHAH no.

 

Your solutions are the same as removing archer from KAG

 

Personally I don't think archers are overpowered at all. Almost every game, I see people just derp around in the battle zone (No shield or any defenses at all) and when they get killed, they scream: "Archers are OP..."
The knight has a shield for fucks sake. No wonder you get killed, if you don't use it... In addition, builders that derp around without knight escorts are easy targets.

An archer has to spend an incredible long time harvesting arrows, while knights can just go right off the bat. Unless, they have money. And when they die (very easily, bomb or knight) they have to either retrieve their arrows (probably gone) or spend a long time reharvesting. Lets say an archer bought 100 arrows for 100 coins. A knight could EASILY kill the archer with a bomb that is worth 20 coins. A death of an archer is therefore of much more value than one of a knight.

OK, not if some servers makes archers spawn with lots of arrows, but that is decided by the server owners themselves. It is not a case of archers being OP.
I play as knight, and I find it very easy to just avoid, or kill of enemy archers.
The idea of knights being able to just block arrows by jabbing is stupid. Why don't you just remove archers. The people whining about archers being OP, is either because they met a pro archer, or are just people who are too eager to kill (ignoring all sense of logic and tactic, and run towards an archer without their shields up)
The game is about logic and tactic, not mindlessly ramboing everyone. One of the problems is: builders stay too far back. In order to effectively block off archers, you have to build forward defenses for your team. Both as a holdingpoint, but also as an anti-archer fortress.
PS: Knights being able to climb up ladders is stupid. Hey, why don't you just let knights have a secondary crossbow weapon to "counter the archers" as well. People say archers are OP, because they want to make the game easier. They want to make themself better at the game.

Yes, arrowspam can be annoying, but it's also one of the main defence strategies. It can also be easily countered by builders or many knights. Also, people complaining about camping: Archers are a support class, not a berserker.
People complaining about never ending games: One team has to use tactic in order to beat the enemy. An archer team can easily be countered with a team of builders and knights. The problems is: People are lazy. They simply don't want to go back to change class. We need an element that encourages teamwork. If both teams refuse to change team, just cast a vote, cause none of the teams will go forward and charge (They will most likely lose)

A nerf will encourage more people to play knights, thus (probably) making people complaining about knights being OP.

Lets sum it up:
Archers

• Archers spend incredibly long time harvesting.
• Not infinite ammo
• Valueable death
• Archers are easily killed off.
• Countered by bombs
• Countered by other archers
• Countered by seigetanks seige weapons.
• Countered by builder+knight team
• Countered by tunnels.
• Countered by closed off buildings.

Knights

• Infinite ammo
• Can fight right when you spawn
• Countered by many archers
• Countered by buildings

If you have to have something to complain about: Complain about the fall damage and knight combat.

EDIT: Yes, I was incredibly annoyed when I wrote this post.
EDITEDIT: I was not talking about if you were up against 3 archers at once. I am talking about 1v1.
EDITEDITEDIT:
I just realised something. People want these nerfs, because they are then less dependant on builders.
But I agree on something: Spamming is annoying.