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How do you like the new Build 780

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by m0zzila, Jun 10, 2013.

  1. m0zzila

    m0zzila Tree Planter

    Messages:
    38
    Hey folks!
    What are your impressions on the new build.
    What do you like?
     
  2. Ratka

    Ratka Shipwright

    Messages:
    158
    I like... well the warboats I guess. My impression is that water bombs and bomb arrows are a horrible idea, as well as the bombs on ballista bolts. The tech tree is rather nice I have to say, as are dorms.
     
  3. xRPEx

    xRPEx Shopkeep Stealer

    Messages:
    79
    Archers, the number one favorite thing to get over powered by the devs. Bomb arrows, fire arrows, stun arrows (water arrows - can also extinguish base fires), and a backstabbing knife. What more could you ask for?
     
    Sarkalest and Ratka like this.
  4. Jackard

    Jackard Base Burner

    Messages:
    852
    Overall it's not very good. Too much dormitory spam, research is a timesink players cannot interact with.

    There are a few nice changes though, like builder chop speed and tree regrowth.
     
    xChapx, Sarkalest and Apronymous like this.
  5. Geti

    Geti Please avoid PMing me (poke a mod instead) THD Team Administrator Global Moderator

    Messages:
    3,730
    ...You can interact with it though? You can choose which path to take and buy scrolls for the trader to patch around any of the choices you have to make? The time delay is needed to stratify the progression of the game without requiring constant micromanagement.

    The dorm spam is something I'm on the fence about, I think it needs to be more expensive for framerate and sanity reasons but it's also undeniably fun to smash a large enemy base and have all their migrants running around screaming.

    Re: Archers are OP - the special arrows (except water) need to be deflected by shields if MM wasn't able to make that change last night, but you do realise knights got a serious offensive buff with kegs, and archers lost their throwables right? I have seen some ammo spam that needs to be reigned in (especially when used defensively) but I've also seen it be hilariously ineffective in the wrong archer's hands.
    As I said, the bomb arrow going through shields is lame and will be fixed soon if MM wasn't able to last night.
     
  6. Jackard

    Jackard Base Burner

    Messages:
    852
    Too little too late. For the most part Research is a passive, unintuitive and thoroughly uninteresting mechanic that eventually autounlocks stuff for you.

    Also, migrant snooze bubbles obscure the research interface.
     
  7. Geti

    Geti Please avoid PMing me (poke a mod instead) THD Team Administrator Global Moderator

    Messages:
    3,730
    What is that referring to? The micromanagement, or the amount of control, or the ability to buy scrolls to acquire more techs? Something else maybe?

    The micromanagement is something we've been working on addressing with this build (see; factories shipping their items direct to storage so you get it on spawn, war boat allowing you to get away without expending effort on a forward base on water maps, nursery replaced by trees dropping the seeds themselves, no kitchen avoiding all of that grow chop place wait pickup go cycle, migrants walking themselves through simple bases (more work to be done there), buildings from builder instead of crate, research progressing itself -> not requiring either one very bored minecraft builder or a team effort collecting gold). Unfortunate if it's not seeing an effect.
     
  8. Jackard

    Jackard Base Burner

    Messages:
    852
    Who is in control? What does clicking these buttons do? Why can't I click these buttons? What do these numbers indicate? How do I unlock higher numbers?

    Who knows! None of it seems to have any effect.
     
  9. Geti

    Geti Please avoid PMing me (poke a mod instead) THD Team Administrator Global Moderator

    Messages:
    3,730
    Clicking a box is voting for that item, clicking again removes the vote. The number of votes is the number displayed. The yellow path is the path that the game has found maximising the number of votes collected along the way from the current level of technology.
    The GUI is admittedly rough but it does have text up the top saying click the buttons to vote on technology.
     
  10. Jackard

    Jackard Base Burner

    Messages:
    852
    It says nothing of the sort.

    [​IMG]

    How was anyone supposed to know those numbers indicated a vote or shop number or what? How many votes do you get? How do you tell which votes are yours? Is there a limit to the number of each unlocked workshop?

    ps. sleeping migrants shown here only make things more confusing, their bubbles can easily obscure the votes
     
  11. Apronymous

    Apronymous Bison Rider

    Messages:
    326
    Answering all of those (likely) rhetorical questions (in order):
    Trial and observation? Worked fine for me.
    You can have one vote up for each piece of tech (so if you really wanted to, you could vote for everything (though that would be silly).
    You can change your vote to find out (and then change it back if you want).
    That I know of, no. That number on the workshop selection is how many of that workshop your team currently owns.
     
  12. Monsteri

    Monsteri Slower Than Light Tester

    Messages:
    1,916
    The tech tree needs some work imo. Instead of the "optimal path" it should just go for the raw votes.
    And which tech path wins if there are identical amount of votes on each? Here we see the ballista having two votes, and yet the research is going for water ammo and catapult. There are also 2 votes on the pyrotechnics, and only one on the bomb ammo. Yet the research tree is deciding to go for the bombs > kegs > warboat path, EVEN THOUGH kegs and warboats are going to be researched from the drill path already. This makes absolutely no sense.
    screen-13-06-10-21-13-26.png
     
    Apronymous likes this.
  13. CookieEpic

    CookieEpic Shopkeep Stealer

    Messages:
    72
    This is awesome. The research menu is confusing, but beta is beta, right? ;)

    I actually played a few games with the bomb/water arrows, and i have to say- I tended to use water arrows to put out our continously fire-satchel'd wood base outside of our stone castle. Of course, that didn't stop me from water arrowing people into the pit. :D


    Bomb arrows are fun- and they're not overpowered in terms of land destruction since they only destroy a few blocks. Sure, if you get hit by one you're essentially dead- but you could just run into something and blow up with it. :)
     
  14. Jackard

    Jackard Base Burner

    Messages:
    852
    The system is pretty confusing. I'd say remove paths entirely, just use the tiers instead.

    have thumbs up/down indicate your vote for that tier - everyone is familiar with likes/dislikes
     
    ThoothyDeer likes this.
  15. m0zzila

    m0zzila Tree Planter

    Messages:
    38
    I do also like the whole research thing. But as I already suggested a few times in the Idea section of the beta Forum, I would like to feed the research bar with experience points you earn through playing. ???

    I don't think that archers are overpowered. Now you really have to make a decision, archer or knight because both are really effective in what they do. The whole war place has got more action and power. All the new possibilities to assault the enemy, force you to think about the best way how to do it. Teamwork also gets defined in a new way. If you cooperate well with the archers and your fellow knights at the front, you can reach much more than you could in the last build. :thumbs_up:

    Also the entire gaming process is longer and you really need to have builders to maintain the Dorms and migrants....
    -> because more dorms, more factories, more factories more supplies :spam: etc. etc. Being a builder is a whole new Job now, a Job for an entire game.:hammer:

    Also the Warboat-base brings fresh air into the battlegrounds. All over all I really enjoy playing this version. :migrant:
     
  16. Geti

    Geti Please avoid PMing me (poke a mod instead) THD Team Administrator Global Moderator

    Messages:
    3,730
    Due to a decision we made earlier on, the path wont change after it's started researching one tech - only the yellow section of the path can change. The two votes on the ballista is therefore inconsequential in that image.

    The lack of changing paths may be changed later on, but would allow someone to sit in research shop changing the paths over and over, ultimately delaying the entire team's research by 100% extra time if done diligently. Either way if it stays the way it is, we need to remove casting votes on impossible tech decisions, and if not, the abuse will be possible (especially in smaller games).

    If there are identical votes, it goes for the default, straight ahead path.

    Did the votes on the bottom path change after it started researching bomb ammo or not? If not, that indicates a bug as it's not meant to count votes twice (and it looks like it could be) - however if they were on one vote apiece when the research decision was made, the path that it takes also makes sense, as it collects 1 vote either way (and this way your war boat research will go x2 speed)

    Saying it makes "absolutely no sense" is pretty near-sighted, should be clear that if it was counting the votes twice that would be exactly the path it would take.

    I think suggesting completely overhauling the research system at this point is rather drastic, either way, Jackard. The solution with voting and clearly displayed paths is the best we could find that worked with no input as well as a whole team's worth of input.

    Re: how many votes do I get - as many as there are items. You say what items you want, the game totals everyone's wants and tries to maximise fulfilment of those wants.

    Overall I'm well aware that it needs work to make it clearer and more intuitive, but I think some of the reactions to it have been extreme. It fulfils its purpose rather neatly as-is, and I'm not interested in implementing yet another research system.
     
    Apronymous likes this.
  17. Jackard

    Jackard Base Burner

    Messages:
    852
    Removing paths in favor of subsequent tiers unlocking is hardly a "complete overhaul"

    More like, the same thing you have right now, minus the forking?
     
  18. SpideY

    SpideY Hear Me Roar Staff Alumni Donator

    Messages:
    511
    Imo, you need just few minutes to understand how a game works.

    I struggled a lot to understand this research system. And what about dozens of migrants sleeping? Just WTF...
     
    Apronymous likes this.
  19. m0zzila

    m0zzila Tree Planter

    Messages:
    38
    It's about reading the update logs ;)
     
  20. Xlayer

    Xlayer Haxor

    Messages:
    263
    Research voting is really cool. I feel great having an opinion when I'm playing. It could use work though. It's not exactly clear how things level-up/unlock and when. Water bombs and Arrow bombs are awesome. Especially when you hit someone with an arrow bomb and it gets planted in them. >:}

    The migrants aren't cute anymore. They're all old and creepy and they don't say "ELLO" when they spawn. :(

    Also, where has the kill log gone?? I like seeing who's killing who.
     
    m0zzila likes this.