First Impression

I haven't played the Alpha version of KAG and I just now jumped straight into the BETA version. After a couple of hours of play this is what I think so far.

First of all, I didn't really like the graphics, I'm fine with pixel-art, but this seemed too raw and I could barely distinguish what was going on. I think especially the building icons should become clearer.
After a while though I got use to it and it's pretty doable, the graphics have some charm, but I think there is still a lot of room for improvement.

Second, the controls and movement felt pretty bad, jumping was kind difficult at time (for example jumping on a boat out of the water) and it seemed to glitch. Tied in to this, are the combat controls, I don't really feel in control, I think there are 8 directions you can attack/defend in, but it is really hard to be precise when the units are so small and slight mouse movement (while you also might be trying to get more vision) changes what you are doing.

Third, I think this game can be really awesome if teams really work together and built accordingly, making plans of attack and setting up coordinated defenses, it just seems awesome. This is probably done by some clans, but for 'pub-games' it would be great to make the step to do this as small as possible.

Those were the things that bothered me the most initially and what I think should be spent more work on (especially controls), that being said though, I still had a great first time and spent a couple of straight hours playing this and will certainly be back for more.
I just wanted to say this now, before I become used to everything and will take it all for granted.

 

I think you are very correct and we appreciate constructive criticism like this especially from new players in beta, new players are able to detect certain patterns much quicker than players who spend a lot of time in the game and are used to mechanics.

I agree about graphics not being clear enough in factories and sticking billboards on factories seems very lazy, I'm myself disappointed about removal of visual indication from attacks it's hard to remember how to long weapons need to be charged for strong attacks, the only cue is the sound, but if you have music running in background it's impossible to hear and you always miss the opportunity to strike.

Proper higher resolution settings are required because playing in 1024x768 window on bigger screens is a joke, this contributes to cutting off customers, not to mention some people have 2 or 3 screens, I even tried to persuade friends to buy this game but they said if it only has proper resolution settings, well nobody wants to get bad eye vision. I only mention this because current resolution settings stretch graphics horribly, 16:9 and 16:10 aspect ratio resolutions stretch menu background as well and pixels. There is no excuse not to do that, and saying it will allow players to see more is a bullshit excuse since we have ability to zoom out view in game, it serves the same purpose.

I think players should easily be able to walk on one tall blocks without need of jumping on them, much like in cube world, it's frustrating during combat because it limits the movement, the whole sliding aspect of movement is due to animation not being perfectly synched which is troubling, movement should be slower and we should have button for sprint instead that increases speed for short duration when pressed, shift is a good button for that.

I agree about not having full tactical potential used, but Take The Halls is meant to be a faster type of game rather than long one, but here is an idea, each round one player becomes a commander and each round and commander gets expanded minimap where he can place cues for team to carry out, so you can place visual cues on map that will display for others, attack/defend/capture/build. I also think voice commands would be good. There is no in game voice chat either.

There is a lot of potential being wasted, the list may go on, but hopefully some things can be modded and experienced scripters can create overhaul mod that might once become something must have.

 

I feel that the degree of teamwork needed really undermines a few of the game's functions.
For instance, research. Those few that actually know that it exists can never agree on what to research.

The sandbox is great and all, but the need for a tutorial is rather dire. Especially when icons are rather indistinguishable to a new player.

 

Yeah, it is a beta so there is still large room for improvement. But the game has been majorly overhauled from the alpha which I have played on and off since 2011. I don't share the perceptions of new players in regards to movement schemes and such. Much of the beta is as new to me as any novice players, but it is new in a different way.

To the first,

I don't see this criticism as having any merit. There was the removal of an additional visual cue but not all of them. There are also two forms of slash attack now which the alpha did not feature so I can't imagine how a third visual cue would be needed or even implemented. The developers should also not have to take into account extraneous information like whether or not you can hear audio cues over music running in the background. Change your own audio levels.

To the second, I can't see any good reason for these changes. There seems to be a consistent trend towards long matches, with frequent stalemates, in Take The Halls matches but this is often a fault of map design, as I see it, rather than lack of "full tactical potential." Evidently this game mode does not lend itself to fast matches which team death matches have provided ever since the alpha. I mean, I don't know how much more tactical a 2D, sidescrolling game can get. There is a ton of change from the alpha so adding new systems wouldn't be wise. Your suggestion of having a person relay visual cues to their team has no merit since there are already two prominent visual cues to indicate what the most immediate objective should be, which comes down to either attacking or defending a hall that's being taken. Personally, the minimap has always held very little of my attention. The new levels of screen magnification and minimization are much, much better than they were in the alpha and are more useful than the minimap, IMO. I'm also a dyed in the wool pubbie so I can't muster the energy to respond to the universal complaint about team cooperation in multiplayer games. Maybe it's just something that will come with time. There isn't a techno-fix for every problem.

I'm sure resolution changes and improvement of the pixel graphics is a valid complaint. I can't speak to either of them since the pixel graphics have changed so much since the alpha and I play on a shitty laptop in a 800x600 window. I can still kick the pants off of any of you big screen people though.
</br>--- merged: Jul 29, 2013 5:41 AM ---</br>
One other thing. People that are new to this game have to come to appreciate the fundamental changes that have happened with the KAG beta. To my understanding, the game's variables are now modifiable to an impressive degree. Many, many things are at the discretion of people who own the servers. Those who would attribute any little thing to errors on the part of the developers need to take that into account. The beta has been open for what? Less than a week? Give it time. Make use of these forums to talk with the server owners. They have a new degree of responsibility for game play now. Mods will be forthcoming in great number.

 

I actually really like Beta, but from a long time playing Alpha/Classic I think this has gone downhill.

Yes, I think as Srymir said, the graphics are a bit raw and hard to interpret what is happening. An improvement in that would be welcomed warmly I think. I like the new classes with the graphics though and they have done a real good job on the hats.

The game is a bit messy and when builder it is a bit complicated to get everything up and running compared to Classic where there was just those basic workshops, now there is a lot and is confusing. With Beta now, the workshops have also improved a lot to. They are more organised (completely against what I just stated) with what they have added. You can see that if it is a boat shop, you know how many there are and where they are. Also there are signs on many of them. I also love the migrants they add a nice touch to the game. Can't remember what they are called but you start off with one, oh a trader, that is a nice thing to have there to.

With physics, I think there is an advantage and a disadvantage. It is cool that they have brought all the knew slashing and jabbing things, but not being able to notch climbing (simply anyway) is annoying when trying to build towers.

Knights now take a lot longer to destroy blocks which is SO annoying, you cannot merely dig when trapped as a knight, better and faster to suicide.

Thats all for now, thanks,
RougeCupcake

 

How is this not having a merit? So you are essentially screwing people who are deaf right, no visual cue for charging the attacks, big fuck you to the people who can't hear. This is just an example, while the screen is being clogged with other informations I guess this won't suffice at all.

To your second answer, a well balanced game will play well on pretty much any map, the moment you have some players who know what they are doing and know what they are capable of then a map type does not even matter. About the rest of what I wrote was just a suggestion merely an idea because who knows, someone may as well make a mod for it because that does not require it to be hardcoded unlike the voice chat, voice comms I'm sure can be moded.

I agree with you about zooming and how useful it is and how it makes minimap obsolete, it's like eagles eye.

 

Fair enough. Again, there are two visual cues. (And two different audio cues actually.) I just don't see how a third one could be implemented since it's no longer as simple as having one slash attack. The old circle completion cue wouldn't work. This might just be an issue with your resolution, as you mentioned.

 

I bought the game just to support the developers of the awesome game. To be honest, after 2 hours of beta play I feel a bit disappointed. It just doesn't feel the same game anymore. Movement, archer gameplay, bombs and so many other cool stuff is changed. I imagined the beta exactly like the alpha but with new things (boat, animals, fire) but it's another game now.

I love KAG and will keep playing, but the ALPHA not the BETA. It's still so much better

 

I love KAG and I switched to the BETA version. I didn't played too much those last months and with all this improvements I feel totally lost sometimes. All new features are really really cool in my opinion, but it's way too complicated to quickly understand. I can't imagine how this can be for true beginners. All that to say we absolutely need an efficient tutorial ! I think that's a true priority.
On the alpha version I had some difficulties to "convert" some friends to this genius game because of the apparent complexity. With this Beta version, it's totally worthless to try...:(

No doubt, you probably planned a tutorial. But I think this tutorial will be the key, the door to convince new players.

Cheers!

Fab, from France

 

In another thread I touched on that and I trully believe maps need to be flat. The reason games last forever is because it' so hard to get to the ennemy base over a pit or a small moutain let's say. I think alpha war mode did this pretty well. Also all the maps that are played in alpha free are flat or have very gradual elevation.

Beside that I agree on the mouvements and I believe they are being worked on.

I think you will get used to the knight combat. I know I have and now I can't go back. Bomb jumping is now harder but you can still do some pretty awesome stuff with it. Remember that you can carry 4 bombs almost every time you spawn too, so take that into account.
Archers... I dunno. I usually meet them in water where a well timed bomb is almost a garanteed kill. I think they need to bring back the little knockback alpha had when hit by an arrow because as of right now you can just walk up to 2 archers with your shield up and not give a damn. To contrebalance that I'd like to see archers lose their "charge" when they get hit. Nothing worse than hitting an archer and then getting hit by a full power arrow. They're kind of a non factor right now really. They are usefull for setting things on fire from far away and that's about it.

Oh also the differents research paths are being looked into as well.

 

Well pretty much every new player will have these problems for a few days, in every game which haves coop.
With every game you get used with the graphics, you get used with the controls, the battle system, and you get used to play with your own goals, because there are 2 things your team will do, build defenses or attack, those who attack you can just follow them and help them with ladders or make wall/tower behind them while they are fighting or make a bridge, or just make defenses at the base, if you want to make a raid, just get a ship on the water, and you will see how many players will gather under a minute.
</br>--- merged: Jul 31, 2013 9:58 PM ---</br>

And my friends are telling me all the time when I play kag, "Stop playing mario man" LOL, they dont understand the complexity and fun in the game, you can build anything you want or you can slaughter everyone from the other team which needs a lot of skill and precision, which bring a lot of fun when you see you are the only one standing :D Well they dont know what they are missing.
Hmm can you imagine KAG getting really popular and the KAG 2 is released with new engine, 3d lol, we can start dreaming but it wont be the same would it?

 

Honestly I prefer the Alpha so far.. The game albiet being a bit more fancy looking and having more stuff, played horribly for me. Also very laggy. Also I agree with the first post:

Overall, I think it can use some more work, but seems to be ok so far. I wish they kept the graphics to be honest though, they were fine the way they were. (Also, add more female heads, half of them look like guys)

 

You can see how much charge is on your attack. Majority of these complaints will extinguish on its own, when playing for some time.

 

I disagree, there are plenty of (co-op) games that have a great feel to there movement and nice graphics with an instant appeal.
Saying you will get used to them, however true, doesn't mean it doesn't matter. I am still enjoying the game-play enough that I take these issues for granted. But I know people will be put-off by these and that is a shame.

Right now however the biggest frustration I have with this game is Knight combat. Basically, I don't understand what I am supposed to be doing and HOW I can improve my efficiency. This starts out by not knowing how much damage each attack does, if the angle matters, special features like blocking makes you stun (I just read that a second ago) etc..
With the lack of these things, there is also a lack of visual feedback to enhance the learning of combat and thus make it fun to progress.

Right now I am just fighting as a random blob of chaos stabbing frantically and more often then not dying as a result..
I think part of this are the rough graphics and the small units, which really don't help in making a distinction between what you are actually doing and what your opponent is doing.

I understand that more experienced players actually know what they are doing, so it is possible to have a meaningful knight-fight, but the road to learning how to fight is filled with holes and obstacles and I think this is an issue that should be tackled.

Also, it feels wrong to have to either zoom-out as an archer (and lose situational awareness if things get hairy) or move the mouse cursor to the edge of screen to get a good view of what you are doing and if you are hitting your targets. It might be worth a try to have disconnected camera movement with a 'return home button' to go back to normal.

What I really love about this game are the different siege weapons, they all seem to have a distinctive role and perform very powerful within that role but are easily negated outside of it. Thus making good tactical deployment of these weapons crucial and more often then not back-breaking for the opponent if you do.
It's probably the feature I enjoy the most out of this game.

 

For the fight unless I zoom I cannot properly fight, and what I do is charge just one slash which takes ~2s, and when the other guy comes in range I release the charge, and its important to release it first, you can fool him that you are coming to him charging and then step back and then release :D I also make my unit to look the other way to confuse him even more, lot of fun :D And double charge when there are more than 2 guys just running at you.

 

Meh. I'd do a proper knight tutorial vid if I could actually record, but as I can't: In knight vs knight combat, just always slash. You can hear a distinctive "chingg" sound when your slash is ready. Try to avoid jabbing and double slashing, as keeping mobile is the key in knight combat; both other attack methods make you an easy target for enemy knights.
Only jab after slashes and you are 1v1'ing someone. Jabbing can also be useful if your enemy is at 1 heart, charging a slash and you are close to him. The time interval is short though, so it might be hard to notice these situations and take advantage of them in time.

Just try being above your enemies as you release furious slashes one after another, point at the direction you want to move so that your movement stays fluid and you won't be caught by enemy knights. Use your bombs to take out the archers that limit your movement options. Stun is death.

Bombjump over obstacles or out of hard situations by cooking the bomb, jumping in the air, aiming your shield down and throwing the bomb away at the last moment.

When facing multiple enemies, the best way to win is usually go full agro on only one of them, especially when enemies are coming from both directions. Keep mobile and don't wait for all of them to catch up to you. You can also use water bombs to stun large groups and slash them while they are stunned.

Also if you have problems identifying your character in the chaos, simply zoom in when the dance begins.

 

I'm finding current knight combat to be the best and most skill based it has ever been. In addition to what Monsteri said I'd recommend covering your approach with bombs, as in hold a lit bomb as you can in for some slashes or toss a bomb to disrupt their spacing. One really good tactic is to throw a bomb so that enemies fly into your slash.

The only thing I would change about knight combat is that jabs should interrupt level one slashes (but not the double slash). That way there is a real decision making process and you have to think about what to do.