[PETITION TO REMOVE WATER AMMO]

as said many times before, water ammo takes skill out of the game. It allows anyone who can press space and then click many times to win.

 

Played with a bit both with and against it, and using both as well as in these water spam matches -cough- Ej -cough-. Problems I see:
1)The 'stunned' before bomb jumping - Counterable with building, also what's wrong with having a counter to bombjumping?
2)Huge stun/chain stunning -
It is pretty long of a stun, but the biggest problem isn't the initial stun, but the chaining stuns, personally I believe that these should be a bit shorter stun for both mechanics and realism but also there should be decreasing stun chance or a slight stun immunity after so that you can't simply be caught doing nothing for potentially 2-4+ seconds. Within a 5 second period, the first stun should stun you for about as long as it does now, any subsequent stuns should either not at all or for much less (.25, or .1) , would need testing to see
3)Popping on literally anything, while this is a 2D game there are heavily implied 3D areas. So when I throw a bomb or a keg past an ally it's totally okay that it goes past them clearly in a 3D area (it doesn't just phase through them), but with a water bomb it's LOL I HIT YOU BRO XDDD NOW I STUNNED MYSELF, SO SHOCK WOW?
4)Implementation within water is retarded for 2 reasons: First it makes no fucking sense, secondly water combat already seems pretty straight forward, make space, attempt to double slash, but atm you can easily wait til they're just close enough throw a water bomb then double slash them easily, it makes it way too hard, JTG did this in water against 8 knights while he had 5-6 water shops to himself and kept them all at bay for upwards of 5 minutes, attacking in water their base is hard enough if it's stone and there isn't much of a way to get up, but toss this in and it's just impossible, and that's with 1v8 (staggered over time of course not all at once in this case), and even when we did get past him (Using our own water bombs to do so) we were at a stand still, I would obviously need much more data on this, I've only played about 40-60 games in the last few beta builds.

Either way, it seems like a fun mechanic that just needs to be fine tuned, not necessarily nerfed, but it has the potential to keep a few things in check when properly implemented that if it's removed would probably become just too hard, I also have to say there are a few things I haven't tested (water in air, locking up potential keg carriers, etc)

For example people complain about stopping bomb jumping, but on the other end shooting a knight while he's flying just propels him forward further despite the angle, seems like water bombs would be better suited here (although I'm not sure if they stop the gliding thus shorten the fall).

For all of you saying that water ammo allows you to have no skill and still win that isn't entirely true, and you lose a lot more, even if you win the '1v1 fight' you still won't win overall if you have no skill. After coming back from so long even, I've pretty much sucked (I dislike a lot of the new combat mechanics, especially shield delay as it shows on my screen), that said even if I use water bombs there are a lot of ways for more experienced knights to fight them without them. In the same vein, the better knight can also have water bombs, if he decides not to he can have more than one normal bomb allowing him to get farther, this is balance, sacrifice for more power elsewhere.

Feel free to test this by getting 10 experienced knights v 10 inexperienced knights in 1v1s or otherwise in 3 situations:
1)No one has any bombs
2)Inexperienced knights get 1 water bomb each
3)Experienced knights get 2 bombs, Inexperienced knights 1 water bomb 1 bomb

Since you know, no one has brought any actual data to this, go ahead and do so. While you're at it if so many people complain things are OP and 'anyone can beat anyone with this', it would be interesting if they brought in some actual telemetry, I'm sure that if you wrote up a mod that tracked all the relevant information that you could get some of the more prolific server owners to implement it (or maybe even the devs, since I assume they do not implement any form of telemetry themselves)

 

I just fail to see why this needs a petition where servers can simply mod out water ammo with ease.

 

This guy gets it, this is the reason why I asked for heavy modability/variables for what was it, a year?

If you don't like something, remove it, if enough people do then it will become the norm, don't play on servers where they have what you don't like.

 

After over a month of watching pubs messing around with water and the start of comp play, I feel the best changes to make at the moment to water ammo would be:

• Water bombs don't auto-smash until after a 1 second priming time (they just bounce like normal bombs during that time).
  
• Water arrows don't affect shielded units unless with a direct hit (still effective in crowd support where knights are fighting, less effective on approaching unchallenged knights).

I feel like they're in a fairly good place as-is, mostly in line with BL's logic above - I really only see chain stunning (especially with water arrows) as an issue, and the "lol stunned" double tap water bomb toss as an annoyance.

Re: Stunning in water; in my mind the breaking glass plays a significant role in the stunning (hence why buckets don't stun).

 

Would diminishing returns on the stun from it within a middling length period alleviate the chain stunning issue?