Knight Changes General (ignore the op)

I wouldn't say 'easily' shoot your enemies. Fortunately, knights can still run quickly with their shields up. Holding right click should not counter a class. I dont need to light things from a distance, my knight can easily get to their base and destroy he whole thing in a matter of 3 seconds.

No because builders are the only defense. They are also the coolest aspect of this game imo. Without them this would be a lesser Awesomenauts.

 

Yes because in combat everyone is just holding their shields in each others faces instead of charging slashes etc. right?
Also I'd really like to see how you destroy a base in "3 seconds" with the same amount of gold spend as an archer.

This thread is making me depressed again, I should stop posting.

 

Sorry to get ya down hart :(

I do when I'm running to the base when there are no knights around. I just hold my middle finger on that right click and i am untouchable to archers.

The only support archers are doing is making it look like i'm having a hard time getting the keg to their base.

Keg price should be more expensive imo. Maybe 200.

 

yea kegs really should be more expensive, but also you can actually easily 1v1 a knight as archer now with the legolas shield stun combo. its pretty easy once youv played archer a bit.

 

Actually the KEG is currently the biggest problem. It is absolutely stupid when I kill a guy carrying a lit keg, the keg explodes the instant he dies. Therefore, currently there is actually no counter when a knight is right next to your tower with a burning keg.

Normally, it should be such that when I kill this guy, his keg (still burning) should drop to the ground and then I should have the chance to pick it up and throw it as much as away from our tower.

 

Or just prevent him getting to your base in the first place. There's no need to change anything. Everything that everybody has posted (unless it's a bug related thing) can be countered perfectly fine.

An example: If a knight is running to your base with a lit keg, and you're an archer. Slow them down with water arrows.(bomb arrows should only really be used for buildings) That should be enough time to let your team dispose of the person and the keg. You shouldn't worry about death, since getting the flags/halls is a higher priority then your K/D. Then take into consideration that your team might just be completely incompetent. You can either face the keg maniac yourself, or just accept the fact that you've done what you could have.

Basically you're not always going to get what you want to happen, the ultimate balance is an even distribution of classes on your team, and how they play their roles, and that's a pretty rare sight on most servers. (BE AWARE THAT THE STATEMENT STATED IS SUBJECTIVE) Just because you're an archer, doesn't mean you can only shoot arrows. You can use that grappling hook to get in front of the enemy, delay and distract them. In certain cases, it's probably more effective then shooting normal arrows at a shielded knight.

But either way, the balance between classes is perfectly fine, it's how it's used in game, by yourself and your team mates. Sometimes water ammo/bombs may be your path to victory, but your stopped fast by someone placing saws in the worst places. If everything was perfect, the game wouldn't be fun.

 

Yes, but the problem with that vs a smart knight with a keg is that he can just time the keg to explode before the archer can point blank legolas his ass. I just light my kegs about 3-4 seconds before i reach the wall. That way even if i am killed, i know my keg will blow up their base.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 22, 2013, Original Post Date: Dec 22, 2013 ---

I'm stunned shortly and then what? By the time you load enough arrows to power shot me, i've already recovered. Maybe if the knights health wasn't 4 hearts.

Either i'm in range and the keg is lit, or you're too far for a stun to make any difference. Having another knight counter the keg holder would be way more effective then shooting wimpy stun arrows. I can't tell you how many times I have been friendly-fired by teammates trying to do that.

 

Knights can outrun builders (with shield surfing) unless they have a keg, in which case they're the slowest class. Archers can outrun both (with grappling hook) even with keg / flag.

Thank god they don't say that, it'll be like an entire TF2 team going sniper.

Yeah, I've seen devs on a few times.

I've seen plenty of games where there are just as many archers as knights. Plenty of games where there are more archers than knights, as well. Knighthart is correct though, usually any given team seems most likely to be half builders.

Nerfing kegs would be simple, if it were needed.

All this would do is make people hit C every time an arrow hits. Also how are kegs overpowered? They're easily countered and not even that hard to steal.

Triple shot at close range, water arrow + two normal arrows, bomb / fire arrows, hitting them while they're occupied.

No, they're not. They have many uses. But this thread is about knights.

The keg actually detonates if you destroy IT while it's lit. In my experience it's about four to six slashes (I think) that will break it while it's carried. If you take down a knight while it's lit, you can definitely schlep that thing away from your base. Archers are phenomenal at this.

As for countering a knight with a keg near your base? Don't let him get near your base. If he gets up close with that thing he's earned it. Or as PumpkingSlice said while I was posting this:

 

And as I already stated, not everything is going to go to as planned. If the keg explodes your base, then it explodes your base. Rather then sitting their, thinking why your team is stupid, you can just block it up. If things still go down hill, then they go down hill. It wouldn't be fun if you always won. (well it might be, but it's a team based game)

 

Flys can outrun my hand, but in the end they're just pesky flies.

Thank god people openly acknowledge that the archer isn't needed. Doesn't sound like a balanced class if that's the case.

I don't disagree with hart on the popularity of builders. It's the most creative aspect of the game. If there were no builders, everyone would be playing Awesomenauts.

So why don't they? Everyone seems to think they are overpowered yet the devs arent willing to even test it :/

Good point. Adding a simple delay on when they can repick up the keg would fix that issue

And this is how I counter that. Dogde. Spam jab.

Why would archers be much better? Chances are the only thing that is available to grapple is your own wall, which you want to get away from. If there were other structures to grapple, knights would be wall jumping over the wall already.

I think that a good way to balance this is to allow builders to destroy kegs with one hit. This makes builders more useful in defending there base instead of hopelessly watching a knight keg their beautiful wall.

Easier said then done. The only thing that will stop my knight with a keg is another knight. Knights are the most versatile units in the game which makes getting to someones base easier than it should be.

Also lol how knights have heavy armor yet they have the weight of a feather.

 

In my 100+ hours i havent seen an archer do something game changing. The most they do is knock down the flimsy one column towers that are high up. Nobody can reach that high usually so it's useful to no one.

Perhaps your page hasn't loaded correctly. I did respond to Kaiser's post to me.

It is retarded as fuck. Then again, you suggested that, not me. Builders should only be able to light kegs imo. There's actually risk in getting a keg. No more mindless keg rushing.

Thank god, bomb jumping needs to go. It's cute and fun to do, but it makes no sense, and takes away value from archer. What's the point of a wall if it's so easy to jump over?

Exactly. 4-5 archers vs 1 knight. What about 3 knights? I didnt suggest that though. I only suggested that people who hold the keg should not be able to shield.

The only thing that seems to be retarded is you. Read posts more carefully as you are responding to things that I never said. Nice try at being a smart ass though.

 

@BlueLuigi Dropping knowledge with no spills

 

Okay. Not sure why this is relevant, as we're talking about KAG. Unless you're inferring that archers are akin to flies, which is fallacy. Yes archers can annoy but they're annoying because you have to focus on them or they will kill you.

Nobody acknowledged that. I wouldn't want a pure archer team though.

If everyone thought they were overpowered it wouldn't be a talking point in this thread. Plus, we're almost to build 1000. I'm sure if you went back to previous builds you'd find a few keg changes.

At that point you're fixing a problem created by a "fix" for a problem that didn't exist.

And they jump backwards, avoiding your jabs while pelting you with arrows. If you're going to let your shield down you're just asking for it.

The ground.

No that would just make kegs trivial to destroy. Builders are already useful in defending by building and maintaining their structures. If they want to get proactive about defense, they can grab a boulder or erect a quick wooden structure, or pick up a drill and get nuts on them. It will most likely fail, but it's something they can do.

Knights don't become invincible to other classes when they light a keg. Anything that could take them down before will still take them down. They may be versatile but that doesn't mean they can't be stopped.

 

A lot of people consider KAG a moba. Do you know what moba even means?

Rofl, no I am not a tester. I am a programmer. The difference is programmers make decisions.

I've already supported this analogy in previous posts. I'm not holding this has my only evidence.

Ok ill reexplain. If my team is assaulting the enemy's wall, we can assume that the knights have passed the other defenses to get to where they are now. So the only structure around is probably the wall that they're trying to defend. I assume you meant that the archer is better at disposing the keg using his grapple abilities to take it somewhere else. What will he grapple onto? Also a good knight will time the keg to explode by the time he reaches the wall.

I would say that it should be equal for organization's sake. No one really knows the ratio which makes it harder to coordinate who does what. That's why all the ex-terraria players decide that they should build defenses and then half the team is builders.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 22, 2013, Original Post Date: Dec 22, 2013 ---

A bad excuse for a lack of a point. Come back when you can program. Did you know that KAG isn't the only 2d moba in existence??

You completely neglected to put quotes in this post so i don't know what you're referring to.

Your ability to not specify what quotes go to where makes most of what you said here retarded before it was ever read.

And no one is arguing with you about knight vs knight. It's knight vs archer im talking about ><

Maybe this is how youre countered when you play but all of these things are easily avoidable. I can see an archer loading water ammo and ill simply keep my distance. Again all the counters you suggest that usually work are knight vs knight, which is not what im talking about. Point blank shooting will not work if i prelight the keg.

I think that to light the keg, the person must be still and there is a short charge time. This would work better.

Not only are you making shitty points, but you are being a troll too. I don't have time to waste with your troll comments. If you can't make a point without calling something fucking retarded, then you are not old enough to be worth my effort.

 

I dont call aiming my shield towards them and holding right-click 'focus'.

Yes they did, and neither would I.

I'm sure. I'm actually sad i missed some of the earlier builds. The game sounded a lot different at points.

It existed in theory and all theory should be subjected to change and suggestions. What's your point?

Jump back against the wall? It's too late, i've already countered.

Then theyre no better than a knight, which is what I was trying to say.

I don't see the boulder used much oddly. The wooden structure is something i've used and works very well. So many builders never play the builder aggressively like that though :/

 

Wowy gee, you must be a professional keyboard warrior, I wish I could say that.
Also, KAG is an MOBA? Get the fuck out, please, you are too stupid for this game, KAG is not a MOBA, saying it is is like calling Civilization an RTS. Also, every 'problem' you've whined about here is an issue of someone lacking skill, or is how the game is meant to work, so, yeah.
Also, your signature is so fucking annoying it makes me want to punch children, just so you know.