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Forum All Clan Groups are going to be Deleted.

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by Kouji, Jul 9, 2014.

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  1. Porti

    Porti Ballista Bolt Thrower

    Messages:
    205
    It has some advantages and defects too. But I think it`s good idea. Social groups have a lot of defects. Really.
     
  2. SAcptm

    SAcptm Haxor Staff Alumni

    Messages:
    134
    It's a good thing. The bloating of social forum numbers meant that Kouji etc regularly had to delete them for inactivity (and also the BoW forum because he's a racist). This move is just much more sensible.

    Realistically there isn't any proper reason to have multiple threads in a ~*unique subforum*~ when secrecy is available via group PMs. And now you will be able to actually see information about clans you want to contact/call them nerds rather than hoping they put stuff on their visible front page (few did).
     
    Ej, FuzzyBlueBaron, Noburu and 5 others like this.
  3. Brilly

    Brilly Haxor

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    222
    These changes are just going to promote more inactivity in the forums.

    If a clan wants to recruit a guy, they can easily contact the guy personally and test em.

    It usually doesn't work the other way around, because then you get a bunch of assholes asking for admin on servers constantly, etc.

    It is in fact clan pms and conversations that are long and bloated, which makes it hard to find information in them.

    A good group page is concise and has all the info you need in one area that is easy to find.

    A good group page consists of a private stash of passwords and tips that should not be shared with people outside of the clan.

    It is there as a reference, and if it is well made, it does not need to be updated often.

    You may confuse this with inactivity, but I assure you, that is not the case.

    Much like how nature abhors a vacuum, micromanaging badmins abhor common sense.
     
    RiftEnigma, Taiga, Klokinator and 3 others like this.
  4. 101i

    101i Haxor Forum Moderator Tester

    Messages:
    445
    Everyone in POWER confirmed infiniterising.
     
    Infiniterising likes this.
  5. Kouji

    Kouji Cold, Uncaring, Sadistic, Evil and Cruel Meanie Administrator Global Moderator Forum Moderator Tester
    1. MOLEing Over Large Estates - [MOLE]
    2. REKINS OF SEAS: Super Crew of Ultimate Havoking 2: Return of King of KAG: Chapter 420blazeit - REKIN

    Messages:
    2,910
    The last 2 rules aren't really going to be enforced or anything. It's a recommendation at most. Only reason I stated them is because most new people only look at the Clan Tag when identifying some one and think of it as their name. Pretty sure if you played in the past at least a few times, you've seen people shouting "CLAN is griefing" or "CLAN hao 2 do dat?" or something to that effect. Since it's most often the common identifying part of a clan, I'm pretty sure it'd make sense to for them to put it first and have emphasis on it.

    The last rule is also a set of recommendations and not something that's actually going to be moderated either. If a clan doesn't care about how it presents itself, that's up to them. A member's list simply let's people know who's in it (and maybe let them see if they get along/don't with a member in that clan). A clan could put "we bzt clan evar!!!" and leave at that. Having requisites posted for joining would generally help people from having to ask what they are (although quite a few of us know that some people just don't ever read the OP anyways).

    Feel free to continue posting Brilly about how your are always right; As much as a may Kiwi attempt to fly, your attempt to predict things has always failed. Anyways, I'll just ignore your posts since all you love to do is make shit up and complain like it's a real issue. Probably also one of the people who actually thought the world was going to end on 2012.

    If anyone, besides Brilly, has some more actual feed back on the rules/changes, feel free to post and if it's serious enough for some concern, then I might change something.
     
    Klokinator, Ej, Hella and 1 other person like this.
  6. PussyDestroyer

    PussyDestroyer Bison Rider

    Messages:
    318
    I trust that will help ;3
     
  7. Kouji

    Kouji Cold, Uncaring, Sadistic, Evil and Cruel Meanie Administrator Global Moderator Forum Moderator Tester
    1. MOLEing Over Large Estates - [MOLE]
    2. REKINS OF SEAS: Super Crew of Ultimate Havoking 2: Return of King of KAG: Chapter 420blazeit - REKIN

    Messages:
    2,910
    Well Spidey, you've clearly haven't seen Brilly post anything in the past before. Pretty sure he just likes making my life hard because I've simply post something and he just loves to state completely false facts about how me and all the other admins are just out to destroy classic. It happens every time. You can only take so much shit from the same person over and over again until you get tired of it. I don't have problem with his other posts, but if it involves some sort of change to classic, he'll make stuff up and won't stop about it.

    Pubs talking about badmins are talking about the server ones. They always get confused and think they are official admins and make a report about it. In the end it's generally something that happened on one of the RP servers.

    Anyways, this is off topic, so you can post on my profile if you want to continue in public.
     
    Klokinator and Hella like this.
  8. Hella

    Hella The Nightmare of Hair Global Moderator Donator Tester

    Messages:
    1,655
    If the current clans, sorry, 'groups' weren't so goddamn broken and out of the way, then maybe it wouldn't make so much sense to have a change of organisation. Right now, the social forum area just a huge and screwy clusterfuck of irritatingly dysfunctional squam-muddlings, based upon a broken plug-in that has even been abandoned by it's own creator for being to broken and shitty. The only reason it isn't even worse than it currently is is due to Kouji ensuring that the inactive groups are deadheaded, and providing even some form of order in that hellhole.

    Whilst they had potential, they were clearly an ultimately poor investment, as, on the whole, only the major and long-standing clans have functional and up to date clan pages, and even then they're not exactly very functional in the long run.
    For example, Young Blood, one of the oldest clans, goes into a deep explanation of their strict and carefully controlled recruitment, training and clan war program is planned, all in the simple phrase "rip contrary".
    POWER continues to stay up-to-date and in action through the use of their cleverly designed thread, "The thread we bump once a month to stop Kouji from deleting power clan page" (it's not quite as subtle as the generally favoured "Horse Porn Sharing general", but, y'know, it works). I also greatly laud their efforts to maintain a clan scene in KAG through their apparently continued activity within the Arthurian League, a tournament that, when I last checked, had ended in more than a year and a had ago.
    BoW is more dead than Freddex is, and I don't even know what has happened to clans like Nemesis, to the eternal detriment of the KAG competitive scene.

    There are a number of clans that still do use the social forums regularly, and obviously some functionality is unfortunately lost, i.e., a badge and the poll, one of which is particularly saddening. However, in exchange for a readily visible clan scene upon the forums, the actual changes to your lives will be minimal. One major discussion thread becomes an open house for all potential visitors, and you still have an infinite number of private threads to make with whichever secretive buddies you want.

    If you are offended, not much can be done. Human beings work in that way, it's probably a glandular problem.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2014
  9. 101i

    101i Haxor Forum Moderator Tester

    Messages:
    445
    norill likes this.
  10. Yagger

    Yagger Kouji's bitch 5eva Staff Alumni Tester
    1. SharSharShar - [SHARK]

    Messages:
    646
    i couldn't honestly care about the special threads or hidden groups, i just want my shield under my name.
     
    Apronymous, Noburu, Tynite and 3 others like this.
  11. Dargona1018

    Dargona1018 Ballista Bolt Thrower

    Messages:
    569
    So, the plug-in is so broken that it only effects the Clan Groups whereas the General Groups are fine and dandy?
    I personally haven't seen some of the Clan pages, but it doesn't seem that broken.
    I mean, who wants to go through all the trouble of starting PM's for every single discussion?
    I wouldn't imagine that someone would have an "EverythingClan" PM since there is no organization there.

    I may just be an incompetent fool for not knowing the obvious flaws, but it is obviously working for the clans that there are now. I mean, just add tags to the Group Forums area (or allow Group Owners to edit the title) so you can do the same thing as you suggest.

    Just have SHARK do this:
    Recruiting - {SHARK} - SharSharSharSharShar
    Boom, there we go, the 4 Subforums in a heartbeat.
    We won't need a subforum for a group of less than 4 people; that's a ridiculous waste of space.
    And if it's a dead thread, a mod/admin can send a PM to the owner, ask if its Dead or not, and then edit the title to be Dead/Inactive - {CLAN} - CLAN Clan FTW

    I truly don't think it's necessary to delete all of these threads to make Clans even more of a hassle to work with.
    After all, if the Clan's group isn't that active, but the clan is, that means that they have found alternate ways to communicate. Why take that away? Make it be where you HAVE to be tremendously active on the forums and in PM's just to run a Clan, even if it's smaller? I think that it works right now.

    And about all of the Group Threads being created, make a rule where you can only make one Group.
    There we go, another thing fixed.

    The way I see it, all of these things can be fixed by adding a couple more things to this now instead of deleting everything and going to an inferior usage of clans.
    After all, just because people didn't want to change from PM's to Clan Groups doesn't mean that they hated the Clan Group system at all, just that they thought that PM's worked better.
    No way to prove that the old way was better, so don't just say, matter-of-factly, that the old system was better.
     
  12. Kouji

    Kouji Cold, Uncaring, Sadistic, Evil and Cruel Meanie Administrator Global Moderator Forum Moderator Tester
    1. MOLEing Over Large Estates - [MOLE]
    2. REKINS OF SEAS: Super Crew of Ultimate Havoking 2: Return of King of KAG: Chapter 420blazeit - REKIN

    Messages:
    2,910
    No, it's broken for both, just that the clan one is a huge waste of time and general is only staying because FBB still wants it.

    As you stated though, you don't have much experience with the group plugin, which therein lies the problem. Faults include: letting people put an unlimited number of badges under their name, impossibility to give ownership to a person who accidentally left the clan, having to delete AND move threads into a different section of the forum before the group itself can be deleted, editing the clan's front page can error out and once that happens for that clan page, it's going to error out everytime, you can put badges from clans you have only applied to join (you don't even have to be accepted), alerts are broken half the time and so on and so on. I could go on, but it'd take too long

    Also, as far as your suggestions go, those are already the rules we have currently and people don't follow them. This causes me to delete them, they cry and it's a pain. Additionally, I can't just check every single group to see who's the leader of every single one to know if they made a 2nd group or not. Not that I haven't tried, but it's always a waste of time. If people actually didn't make 100 different clans, told me when they decided to shut down and the plug-in itself wasn't broken from an moderation standpoint, then this wouldn't be happening.

    The only thing that can't be as easily replaced is the Shields underneath the name, although you still have your signature for that.
     
    Klokinator, Noburu and FuzzyBlueBaron like this.
  13. all the discussion in this thread pretty much boils down to this:

    also Brilly could really finally stop trying to stir shit
     
    Noburu and FuzzyBlueBaron like this.
  14. FuzzyBlueBaron

    FuzzyBlueBaron Warm, Caring, Benign, Good and Kind Philanthrope Global Moderator Forum Moderator Donator Tester
    1. The Young Blood Collective - [YB]

    Messages:
    2,508
    Yagger, the solution is simple: get a Shark server going and then create a group for it in general-- with the sharsharshar shield as the thumbnail. :wink:

    >inb4 people create spam groups just to get shields: If you are caught using the thumbnail of a group that has no clear purpose (beyond giving its members a shield) then the group will be promptly deleted, all members will receive a warning, and you'll have your rights to create a social group revoked. I was the only person who voted for keeping the General section, so I won't have anyone making keeping it as legacy any more burdensome than it's already going to be. :rektlord:
     
  15. Porti

    Porti Ballista Bolt Thrower

    Messages:
    205
    If you want shield you can make social group, set avatar as primary social forum and then delete this group (admin is not needed to delete group, you must just kick out all players except you and all threads). Shield will stay and you will be happy.
     
  16. Sir_Walter

    Sir_Walter Haxor Staff Alumni Tester

    Messages:
    273
    @Porti
     
  17. Mazey

    Mazey Haxor Global Moderator Forum Moderator Staff Alumni Donator Official Server Admin

    Messages:
    1,914
    So if someone without warning points creates a pointless group, puts the shield and invites Duplolas to it he will not get banned but Duplolas will get even longer?
     
  18. Porti

    Porti Ballista Bolt Thrower

    Messages:
    205
    Buut
    Who one cares about stupid shield under avatar? Group will be deleted so i don`t think you will get warn...
    Making this can take 2 minutes...:ehh:
     
  19. Taiga

    Taiga Based God Donator

    Messages:
    89
    Goddamn, you had to remind us. I don't even play anymore. There's no competitive aspect.
    It's not like changing up the clan page you'll see a difference in player activity.But it is what it is brah.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2014
  20. FuzzyBlueBaron

    FuzzyBlueBaron Warm, Caring, Benign, Good and Kind Philanthrope Global Moderator Forum Moderator Donator Tester
    1. The Young Blood Collective - [YB]

    Messages:
    2,508
    If Duplolas, or whoever else, is stupid enough to join a group that has no purpose outside of getting a shield then yes, they will get a warning along with everyone else in the group.

    And please, I'm not about to do something that leads to a ban straight off the bat; give me at least that much credit. >_> People will receive a 0 point warning the first time around, just like anything else. Only those foolish enough to repeat the stunt will be in any danger of a ban, etc.

    And for the record: All groups currently existing in General will be left alone so long as they remain active-- no matter how silly/pointless they are. (Please note, I said currently existing-- I have screenshots and will nuke any pointless/joke groups that pop up between now and when Clans goes away).

    Anywho, the point of all this is not to be a complete hardarse, it's just that I don't relish the thought of wading through a million-and-one groups that exist solely so that their owner can have a unique shield.


    {edit}
    Alternatively, we could just leave things as they are and see how it goes. In fact, yes. I like this idea. We'll see if people can be mature for once... (lel :rollseyes:)

    So, hows this? If the groups page is used responsibly then great, but if it's spammed to shit then I'll just lock it so no one can create new groups (although, ofc, people who have a legit reason for wanting a new group, e.g. a new server gets put up, then we can tweak things so they can create their group).

    Sound fair? :huh?:
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2014
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