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Dead game is dead...

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Leo, Sep 23, 2014.

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  1. dayleaf

    dayleaf Haxor
    1. The Thieves Guild

    Messages:
    255
    I cant remember who said that we havn't got enough publicity...
    i will just leave this here
     
  2. Blue_Tiger

    Blue_Tiger Bison Rider Tester

    Messages:
    899
    Team play has a heavy weighting on games in KAG. Obviously you have the basics such as knights protecting archers and builders and arrow ladders etc but things like slashing in time with each other as knights and distractions and a hell of a lot more are rarely seen in pub games.

    KAG is a hugely team based game. No idea why you'd think otherwise.
     
  3. 16th

    16th Bison Rider

    Messages:
    254
    Yo, man, don't be CO here. I'm play dozens of clanwars in classic. ArL, WorldCup, Gather all that stuff
    that's what I call a fun game

    and that what i saw in beta. not fun for me...
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2014
  4. Dargona1018

    Dargona1018 Ballista Bolt Thrower

    Messages:
    569
    A lot of people say that it gets no publicity, mainly because that was the game back in Alpha, and the video was made exactly 3 years and 13 days ago, and since then there was a Beta and Steam Release...
    --- Double Post Merged, Nov 20, 2014, Original Post Date: Nov 20, 2014 ---
    Also, that clan-war was from before Steam Release (I think) and the game is much different than it was than.
    There is more teamwork, the game is much faster-paced, there is good strategy involved, and jabspamming is frowned upon.
     
    Blue_Tiger likes this.
  5. dayleaf

    dayleaf Haxor
    1. The Thieves Guild

    Messages:
    255
    DOH! i forgot to say that, ask another "WTF is..." to the cynical brit xD
     
  6. SpideY

    SpideY Hear Me Roar Staff Alumni Donator

    Messages:
    511
    You have a lot of tricks to do with all that new stuff... Fast round with 10 players require some skill atm. Its a bit sad that faith isnt ready for beta!
     
  7. ThE_HeRo

    ThE_HeRo Bison Rider

    Messages:
    136
    Wat is dis thread even for?
     
  8. 16th

    16th Bison Rider

    Messages:
    254
    Faith don't even exist now 78787878
    So how about a video of "Fast round with 10 players", do you have it? I'm really whant to see it
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2014
  9. Potatobird

    Potatobird Haxor Forum Moderator Mapping Moderator Tester Official Server Admin

    Messages:
    777

    Recent(ish) clan war between Frisson and Nemesis. Oodle is not talking to himself, he just couldn't record everybody else.
     
  10. PorkChop808

    PorkChop808 Catapult Fodder

    Messages:
    18
    I don't know of any game you cant make a macro for......
     
  11. Corpsey

    Corpsey Haxor

    Messages:
    124
    The difference is that some other games have combos and/or a cast time with cooldown forcing you to choose your timing... so macros are useless. In this game a macro can do things that may not be intended... I would list examples but I would prefer not to for the sake of the people who play legit who don't need the extra frustration.

    It doesn't make that much of a difference in the new patches but people with macros still have a large advantage over those who don't... 2 knights or archers charging an attack at the same time, one of each with PERFECT ROBOTIC TIMING... Who will win more often? Probability would suggest the macro user. (One example of a large list)

    All I'm saying though is that it's hard to determine who is using a macro in this game, so it's hard to care for anyone who's playing well... Don't get me wrong, I'm an idealist with good sportsmanship, so I really actually just say that because I would prefer if there were some system in place that would make macros less effective. This is also just one opinion, I'm sure maybe people think differently, and again BECAUSE I'm an idealist, I would LOVE for the players to just play as the game is and not use macros... but just hoping for something will not make it happen.

    And yes, there are macros for a lot of games. A lot of games I don't care for.... and this has been added to that list because some d.bag I fought decided to take it to that level. However, you have to understand that if people get onto servers and just get rocked the ENTIRE MATCH by someone who is claiming they're not using a macro (but they are), those players will try SO hard to get 1 kill, all the while they really stand almost no chance depending on how good the macro'er is at positioning him/her self. And do you think that player would want to play again? It's a really hard topic to discuss because people who use macros aren't going to admit it, and the entire element that makes this game actually fun is playing with and against people who aren't using one.

    I could post solutions, but I know that a lot of what I would suggest would get a shit tonne of backlash, not to mention I would recommend changes that I wouldn't even want (because if everyone played without macros there would be no problem). The sad fact is that this game was ruined for me because I happened to fight someone that I thought was cheating at first, everyone could tell that he was 'fast' in a consistent and annoying way - and so I recorded the guy and managed to actually reverse engineer his macro.. so thanks to that one bastard I can never look at this game the same.

    This may not be what people want to hear, but it is one problem that I could see that's potentially killing this game more than people realize.

    Beyond that opinionated rant;

    I think a large reason the game is 'Dead' is because this game seems to use the same amount of processing (if not more) as some modern 3D games... so I'd imagine that people with the average computer probably can't do much in multiplayer without lagging. Not sure what causes all the lag... probably the check for collapse or something? At any rate, it's there and when you combine that with no singleplayer outlet for those people, they will get bored quickly.

    Also, with no tutorials for the noobs, there are a lot of new players that don't contribute a shred of usefulness to a match. Others suggested rookie only servers, and that may not be a bad idea - but a tutorial that devastates them may help them get over the fact that the game is too fast-paced to worry about small amounts of blocks (for example, have a part of a tutorial where they have to build a standard wall and then defend it from a scripted attack consisting of bomb-throwers, a catapult wheeled in and then manned by a builder, and a keg attack followed by a rush of archers). They should be subjected to an attack that is worthy of collapsing their wall. Not sure what could actually do that right now though considering 1 thin line of backwall can hold up a stupid amount of blocks.

    I can't figure out why this game is SO dead though, but I imagine people just don't like having a unit with 0.5 attack. They simply can't deal with having to switch between all of the classes...
     
  12. FuzzyBlueBaron

    FuzzyBlueBaron Warm, Caring, Benign, Good and Kind Philanthrope Global Moderator Forum Moderator Donator Tester
    1. The Young Blood Collective - [YB]

    Messages:
    2,508
    For the record, I'm only a middling-to-high tier archer and I'm fairly sure I could reliably beat someone plying a macro. Your comment:
    highlights part of the why (timing), but there's also the factor of terrain and the advantages/disadvantages it can impart on combatants in a highly mobile setting (which archer definitely is and, it could be argued, knight is as well).

    Playing as archer there are at least 4 different draw levels, each with a different timing and power output. Each of them has a number of uses and in any given skirmish (vs archers or knights, it doesn't matter) I'll probably use 3 of the 4, if not all, depending on the exact circumstances and terrain of said dust-up. Macros might give you a perfect timing on the full-draw, or even any of the draw levels, but I have difficulty imagining a setup where I could both a) have the perfect charging of macros, while b) still having the flexibility of letting off an arrow "early" and/or "late"; meaning I can surprise an opponent by firing a shot a split second before/after they're expecting it-- which, fwiw, can totally screw you over if you're caught off-guard.

    I mean, yes, I'm sure clever people could work out ways to have their cake and eat it too; but could they do it and maintain the edge of split-second, twitch response that high-level archer combat requires (and that a simple control-set [LMB to draw, release when ready] enables)? I have to express my doubts. Those moments when you go "ah, I was macroing for level 3 draw spam but I really should have let that particular shot wait half a second so they thought I was going for lv. 4... ;~;" would be far too common in my experience. Sure, macroing might work if you're just fighting plebs and you only need to spam long-range shots as fast as possible; but against anyone who actually knows their stuff? I can only think you'd hurt yourself much more than you'd help... :huh?:

    tl;dr
    No, it actually takes some skill to play this game well. Thus, when you add in the teamwork aspect, Release KAG is definitely usable in a competitive sense.
     
    Auburn likes this.
  13. Corpsey

    Corpsey Haxor

    Messages:
    124
    Alas, it was more tuned to knight, because you can play as an elite archer and have the (macro) extra buttons readily available for knight, but I do agree with what you're saying... Like I said, it's a bit hard to discuss because it depends on how elite the macro/user is.

    So as to your blurb about archers;
    Just the same, a knight using a macro can be defeated if he's not very bright, but you can get an edge if you know both movement and your macro timing. You can tap a normal attack to jab and break the macro to flee and charge a perfect macro slash that is practically unbeatable, and follow it with another that is once again a perfect slash... Really though, I cut a lot of the strategy out of my blurb so to not encourage people using the macros (and I'll stop here because I could just go on about how to use a macro well all day, including something game breaking*).

    For example, CSGO has macro prevention but only for consistent spamming (to prevent people from using pistols as automatic weapons). It works against people who would just set up a poorly configured macro, but you could easily alternate the timings in such a way that it appears to not be a macro.

    I've only come across 2/150 (in KAG) players that used a macro. So it's a very small minority, but these players can ruin the human aspect of the game... where you're no longer fighting against someone with good timing, but rather some stupid perfect-timing death machine (for someone who uses a macro well). Just think about this... you're up against your castle... as archer you only have the option to really get in close or with some borderline suicidal attack, as builder you can't do much other than maybe drop a spike and waste some stone (for the knight to just come back) meanwhile this knight could be defending people on his own team as they are breaking into your base... If you go knight, you are at a disadvantage because the guy is using a macro and understand positioning and timing enough to kill you the majority of the time. Does that sound fun? Maybe for a while but it can get the point where it's a complete pain in the ass because even your best efforts end up with you thinking you've got the perfect slash honed in and yet, he slashes, and then charges immediately and slashes again.... so on and so forth.

    I'm talking about someone who knows what they're doing and understands how to abuse it to the max, also most people ARE plebs, believe it or not. Not everyone wants to play this game competitively, and while I agree that it may not matter in comp because people wont use it, it's still hard to care for anyone when maybe using them IS the most elite? I mean, it would be more efficient if you know what you're doing - and that's a fact.. It's like having an extra attack button that reads "Perfect slash queue".

    *There are other things though that can make it gamebreaking... I don't want to post it here, but I could PM the devs if they care.

    At any rate, this is kind of trailing off of the discussion, but this is at least for me the reason I refuse to play. There is just no way of determining what is legit, and it's caused by the exact thing that makes the game fun. This may not affect anyone else at all, and most people probably wouldn't notice or care, but having been able to reverse engineer someone's macro really put a damper on my enjoyment of the game.
     
    Ozminer likes this.
  14. whisper_dan

    whisper_dan Ballista Bolt Thrower

    Messages:
    37
    I had been searching for a sandbox game like Kag for a long time before I found and joined during a steam sale. I bought terraria but that game has sprite animation and an art style that make me want to vomit. $10.00 on something I have played for maybe 30 minutes. On the other hand kag cost me $3.00 and I've played 200+ hours I think.... Maybe a lot more I'm not home atm.

    I actually bought soldat back in the day too and I had no idea this game existed.
     
  15. Waxtor

    Waxtor Haxor Staff Alumni Donator Tester
    1. KAG World Cup 2018
    2. Gather Oceania

    Messages:
    28
    its the time-zones that's why
     
    Dargona1018 likes this.
  16. BlueLuigi

    BlueLuigi :^) Forum Moderator Donator Tester

    Messages:
    3,620
    R-Right the time zones

    That's why classic had full servers for 2+ years and I could think of at least 30-40 people who played on a daily or near daily basis for over a year.
     
    Arcite and ShnitzelKiller like this.
  17. jimmyzoudcba

    jimmyzoudcba Haxor Tester

    Messages:
    274
    I know, like this type of thing never happens and should never happens
     
  18. revsta

    revsta Shipwright

    Messages:
    88
    Criticize Dev - get banned. Surprise surprise. That's your welcoming community, folks! :) Your devs who make 10 million+ off you and can't afford to toss a coder 50k a year to fix bugs.

    Go KAG!
     
  19. Yagger

    Yagger Kouji's bitch 5eva Staff Alumni Tester
    1. SharSharShar - [SHARK]

    Messages:
    646
    I can't tell if you're trying to be an asshat purposely or if it comes natural, considering that statistic comes straight from your ass.
     
  20. FoxyLady

    FoxyLady Haxor Staff Alumni

    Messages:
    193
    I think we should vote on what new community maps and current maps should be on the official servers. A lot of times i see empty servers because of a map a lot of people may not like. Like seriously i can't count the amount of times i hit a map in a certain server and like half the people leave cause they just don't like it but refuse to pass the vote to skip it; They stay and 2- 5 minutes later realize oh shit i should of voted to skip but its already too damn late and you lost half your player base and wind up leaving themselves.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2014
    kittycity likes this.
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