[1796] Siege changes

I can see siege as something necessary to ending a game that you control, but too often in pubs it is used defensively. My suggestion is to make siege teamkill as a means of discouraging its defensive spam(ie both teams just spamming bolts at mid). I would also like to see the ammo get a price increase. Ultimately i would like to see siege as a means of ending the game, not prolonging it.

 

Pubs will continue to spam shots from the top of towers but now they will be harming their team.

They are put on top of towers in the first place because they are so weak and the user is vulnerable. If they provided more protection to the person using it--and had a health buff--I think they would see more use in the battlefield.

Timers could also be placed on bomb bolts to eliminate their tower use completely. IMO bomb bolts should be nerfed and regular bolts should be buffed. Nobody wastes their time with regular bolts because they are weak as shit.

I think you should be able to buy regular bolts or bomb bolts from the shop rather than having a direct upgrade. Regular bolts could break a few blocks in a straight line, for sniping unstable structures. Bomb bolts would do more wide/"AOE" damage.

 

there are always going to pub players that do not understand the mechanics and you cant turn down a suggestion because of that. Atleast once a week i have to spam in all caps at a player to not destroy our front structures(because they want to k/d farm, coin farm, or just dont know how the thing works). Honestly siege should be used to destroy, not something spammed to "stop" the enemy or help out a teammate in combat(ie if a bomb bolts hits both me and and the enemy knight we should both die). I just dont see why it should be a viable strategy to spam bolts at knights, archers , or builders to stop a push in the middle of the field; it is a siege machine after all and if it is being used correctly(to rape the enemy's base) then there shouldnt be any real teamkilling. If it used incorrectly there should be a consequence for both teams, not just the enemy.


I'm not understanding how the timers would work and i dont want the ballista removed from the top of towers. They are a powerful weapon to end the game and i think they should serve that purpose.

 

I'd love the ability to TK with ballista. Maybe I'd actually start using siege.

 

I think siege vehicles are a mixed bag. They're fairly costly; gold for building the shop, then buying the vehicle itself, and lastly the ammo. They are very effective at destroying structures, but they are difficult to get to the front since they don't handle terrain well, and they can easily be captured. The result is that people place them on elevated platforms where they are more protected (requiring additional costs of building that platform). When a team is short on territory, that platform is typically at the top of the main defensive structure, and, yes, it becomes more of a defensive deal instead. They're much less effective in that sense however, and a ballista spawn with a potential huge drop down, isn't at all a good forward spawn for teammates, since they have to spend time getting down, or even losing health just jumping down. Catapults' ammo dissolve after a certain distance, I believe, so they're even less useful. So, do they need a nerf, or are they already an unattractive defensive measure? I'm leaning towards the latter.

(Reminds me how annoying it is that sometimes you can't choose a place to spawn, and you can never change your mind after having picked one. I just hate spawning at badly placed ballistas.)

 

I'm honestly not understanding what issue you have with the "nerf". Why should siege be used to spam at mid and killfarm while people are fighting. Let me make it crystal clear what i want and why, I want siege vehicles to teamkill because i do not like that it is used defensively. What do i mean by that? I mean that people spam it from the top of a tower at fighting knights, archers or builders(why should siege be used to spam at players in combat and onlly harm the enemy?). I feel like that is the real problem with siege, and i dont feel like anyone is bringing up any viable reason why siege shouldnt teamkill. As it is right now, it ruins the game with its defensive spam. Also, im not against buffing siege, increasing its health, or improving its mechnics, with any of those changes i feel like this one is needed.

edit: for the people who think teamkilling would actually be an issue:

teamkills lose the shooter money which would stop him from affording more bolts to spam(so he couldnt just spam crap at mid all game thru fighters and would actually have to be smart about it; He would have to actually siege the enemies base.)

 

after meditating on the issue for 12 hours straight under the influence of aromatic flowers i got to a conclusion that balances perfectly the problems of siege:

- ballista: normal bolts decay time must be HIGHER so they serve the purpose of climbing. they destroy platforms very well but they need to stay put even more time than they do now. Now, for BOMB BOLTS I agree with CHUKKA: they should be bought as an item. I would REMOVE the gold cost to upgrade the bolts, instead you can buy either piercing or bomb bolts but u need 50 mat_gold to deploy a ballista. This helps ballista spam.Also bomb bolts should cost like 100 denars for 12 bolts. this way you have something as destructive as a keg (actually more than a keg) but you need gold AND coins to use it

 

isnt that what archers are for?

I think it's a lame solution to just raise the price by 70 coins. As it takes so much effort to actually get a ballista up, and the 12 bolts really only equate to 6. You'd literally only be able to use siege to coinfarm by killing people if it was changed this way and i dont like the idea of an item ingame used only for camping and killing with.

 

because right now its not used to camping and/or killing by all means...
also the price would be rised by 70 coins + 50 for deploying the ballista. i dont think its hard to deploy it and in many pubs u can see easily 3-4 ballistas up spamming like crazy to an extent in which its impossible to stay in mid

 

I like ballistas how they are. Making ballys immediately cost 50 gold to deploy will negate their use as a spawnpoint(or make them expensive as hell). Honestly im not seeing any better suggestions for ballistaes, so ill probably make an actual suggestion thread soon. Regular bolts have their use and dont need a buff, they are more cheap and pierce thru people. I dont feel like they need a buff. Bomb bolts have their use as well, utter destruction of the enemy and the only part i want to change about that is its stagnating spam(you shouldnt be able to spam the ballistae to defend your teammates ect and you should have to be smart with it).

 

Well I'm generally for team kills, just because it's more fun. I virtually banged my head against the wall when the devs decided saws shouldn't kill team mates. I just don't see a particular problem with siege engines in particular.

 

That would a ginormous nerf because alot of popular maps are pretty short in height

 

i assume you meant bomb bolts or else it wouldnt make sense. Honestly sounds really thought out though costpervalue would be too high with kag's price right now. If your suggestion were to be implemented i think cost of ballys would have to be lowered.

 

Id say make bomb bolts cost more like 500 , 1000 and 150 or just make the explosion a bit smaller.

 

I really really dislike it when people either dont read what ive written over 3 or dont tell me why my line of reasoning is bad. I am not in favor of someone sitting in a seat and instagibbing teammates, but i feel like it is very much needed change. Currently, a spammer can sit there clicking off bolts into piles of fighters and only kill off the enemy. Why the hell does that make sense to anyone? Siege being used to defend teammates is a very wrong idea. With that being said i realize some people might harm their teammates with siege because they either have a tiny pub brain or they are new(probably both), but i dont feel like it will be a consistent problem because you lose money from killing any teammates. I feel like discouraging people from that specific type of spam is needed and the change wont be that harmful to the team with the ballista because the shooter will not be able to afford to be idiotic.

Also for point 2, i dont see how only letting the knight survive the bomb bolt rain is a fair fix, as they are the easiest class to stop bolts as it is right now. Archers atleast have bomb arrows to counter the crap, but builders have literally nothing(personally id love to see you not take dmg,from ballistas, behind platforms so i could actually use that as defense).

As for the black area destroying bomb bolts, i really dont see that as a real possibility what with all maps being setup differently and all the work it would take to balance the map for ballistas(and i do not see anyone giving a single shit about the quality of official server maps afterall cerberosrift is still in the rotation). tho the sky being visible again would be great for defending against bolts.

 

Why would it be fair for abunch of knights to sit on the defending team's flagroom and be backed up by a shitton of bomb bolts? That sounds trashy as hell. There's a huge difference between bomb arrows and bomb bolts(that being that the enemy can shield the bomb arrows and stop all the destruction). Honestly bomb bolts have more of a reason to teamkill because you can aim it anywhere and it instakills anything belonging to the enemy. It needs to have a clear use as destruction of the enemy's crap and side and not just spam wherever they push without consequence. Honestly i feel like it will be like ripping the bandaid off of mines(they will be a difficult adjust but pubbies will respond). Also where would you be aiming it and your teammate just walks under it? maybe the enemies base which you shouldnt be able to camp on top of AND spam bolts at the same time.

Dont pretend like i took anything personal, you just said it was a bad idea without responding to any of my reasons why i didnt think it would be an actual issue. As for your point, i saw that as an issue the whole time and before i even made the suggest, i balanced the risk over reward and believe it is a much needed change. If your team is being completed retarded with the siege you need to keep them in check(just like if they are destroying your own structure with a ballista during this build). It is still an issue ingame with teammates destroying your own things, but that isnt the ballista's mechanic fault it is the braindead pubbies. I understand teamkilling would be a pretty huge issue if an idiot is manning the ballista but that is YOUR job as a team to manage just like it is your job to stop them from destroying your own structures. If your teammate kills you while you are attacking the enemy id say that is alittle bad for you but alot more fair than only the enemy dying because defensive spam. Think about it, all their shit is being raped by this crappy little thing where the blue bastards are spawning at, and you cant gain any ground to remove it because the turd is spaming bolts at the herd of rushing red knight trying to push thru the blue knights, only for all the red knights to die from the bomb bolts while the blue knights survive the nuke. I already said i didnt understand completely the timer suggestion and i dont feel like the black area one is feasible. The other suggestion of raising the price tremendously i just couldnt see a reason for and based off of what you said he meant by the timers(that they explode bombs atfter a certain amount of time) i dont see what it would really accomplish. What time would you have them explode after? Is it just suppose to be a range nerf? Or is it suppose to be a larger upward angle nerf? Why cant you just nerf those outright?

If you neuter the attack force how can they reasonably regain ground to fend off the ballista?