[228] Archer Discussion

Heh, yeah, though I don't know how functional different firing modes would be :P

 

Fire arrows are confirmed, and I think the type of arrow menu thing is confirmed too.

Anyways, here are the arrows I am thinking we have all talked about;

Fire arrow
Bomb Arrow
Quick shot arrow
Triple arrow
Ice arrow

I've only heard about the ice arrow idea a few times though.

 

@GhostyS: I've played as archer in this game probably three times as long as you've even known about this game. Don't tell me to practice.

I don't think the efficacy or archers are really in question now. With life counts and the fact that knights can't break stone now (leading to more importance of catapults and workers who are vulnerable to archers), the archer has a definite gameplay niche.

But really the archer is no fun and more shooting isn't going to solve that. What if you took away the knight's shield and bombs and replaced them with the ability to select a double stab or a fire slash. Yeah it's a cool novelty and at first you'll think "woah cool", but then you'll realize it's the exact same shit.

 

Not really, if they took away my charged attack i'd be like "wtf this is boring now" and go builder.

 

Maybe poison gas arrow - how did I come to this idea? What kind of attack could bypass knight shield... nothing direct would hit it as even bombs do nothing...

Other cool thing with it would be area of effect that could counter nest of archers that are shielded by knight. Poison gas would do like 0.5 heart of damage every X seconds (2 seconds would be cool) with instant 0.5 on hit if it lasted for 4 seconds would do maximum of 1.5 heart of damage if you afk'ed in it.

Wounder how it would affect the game play... strategically deployed gas clouds could stop enemy wave for couple of seconds and defend a point. It wouldn't be overpowered - can't instakill anybody with it, easy to avoid - move out of the way and so on. If it was something like shop item it wouldn't be spamed (but still I hope it would be cheaper then a bomb as much money goes for the plain arrows).

 

Well honestly what I would like for archer is fire arrows, bomb arrows, grapple arrows, few more manuevers and some stealthy more.
Nothing too complex really. No offense Miczu, but a gas arrow sounds terrible. CA is terrible for a reason too :P

 

I guess realistically the only addition we can expect to the Archer before that mythical "Super KAG MMOBBQ" is probably the fire-arrow.

Personally I think I might be fine with that, depending on how LOL fire was.

The only concern I have with things like the grappling hook and rope arrows atm, is that they don't exactly give the Archer new offensive abilities. They just let you get up to different perches and "shot arawss" from there. If your team can use them as well, then that's a different thing entirely.

I would like to see an ability that is:

1. Simple to activate and acquire.- Bomb shop sells bombs, F activates them, etc. Simple

2. Has offensive capability, to add a layer of excitement and entertainment.- Bombs blow things up, derp.

3. Has some utility outside of the obvious combat role.- Bombs give you jump, building destruction, etc.

It may be that Fire Arrows will fulfill all of these things, and my forum posts will flatline as a result!

So long as I have more options to kill people, other than just vanilla arrows, I will be happy.

 

How will archers ever have anything that is not arrows firing? They use a bow and thats it. The dagger has been contested. Maybe traps? That would make things interesting. It makes sense an archer can carry around extra traps with how light his armour is.

 

That's actually not a bad idea.

Bear traps would be cool, but there are no bushes so they would be easily visible and avoidable.

Another though i just had is weightened capture net! Imagine archers shooting nets that trap the enemy, and it would take a couple of hits with to destroy the net and get out.

(http://www.gijoeclub.com/conventions/dallas/images/08netPRE.jpg)

 

Well, how useful would these traps be? Would it be funny to see an enemy knight trapped into a bait, unable to shield?
Well, probadly it would, but as servers are mostly 24+ players, another knight is just gonna hop over it jabbing his sword everywhere.
Not to mention it wouldn't be very nice to tiptoe everywhere cause there may be some annoying, yet ineffective traps laying around.

 

Well, if you are going to argue that Archer should never have anything but arrows, because they are an Archer... Then I don't see how you can explain Knight's having bombs. I mean, Knights in this time period didn't even like crossbows, because they took so little skill to use and could be so deadly. I hardly think that a Knight would accept a technological marvel like the bomb as an honorable and reasonable weapon.

I don't care what Knight has anymore, because the Knight class is quite fun and can do a lot. I would just like to see the same for the Archer. Arrows or Traps or Derrrs or Whatever.

There is no reason to limit one class in the future, just because it has been limited in the past.

 

I'm not arguing that archer should have nothing but arrows but i'm saying I can't see them with anything else. Unless there's overwhelming support for daggers. Their specialty is ranged combat, so throwing knives I guess, but how would they be different from arrows, what niche would they fill? That is why this is a hard thing. Bombs obviously fill niches, so do shields.

There are already threads about traps: http://kagforum.com/index.php?threads/traps-ideas.1326/ http://kagforum.com/index.php?threads/suggestion-give-archers-the-ability-to-lay-down-traps.1519/

So yeah, i'm just bringing it up again.

 

Traps could be good - like archers have little reason to move into front line so traps could make them be more in-front kinda class... Bear trap that does no damage just snares you in place for 1-2s could provide needed close range protection.

Would disappear after 30s, cooldown something like 15s (no cost) and there wouldn't be trap spam for like impassable field. No damage wouldn't prevent the "1 spot, 6 traps instakill"...

The main thing is that any additional future on archers would improve gameplay, even if it would be in 9 out of 10 cases useless, there would be additional 1 case that archer would be fun.

 

Bear Traps are a good idea. But I disagree a bit on the duration of Miczu. What about using once and ilimited, and only be able to plant other when someone falls on it. Of course, with the option to disarm your own trap. But the idea of the 30s is not bad.

Fire Arrows need a source of fire. Builders could build it. Something like a cauldron with lighting purposes, and may be used to shoot fire arrows? Costing something like 10 of stone and wood. More Likely a Fire Bowl!
https://d27fcql9yjk2c0.cloudfront.n...0bc5092dbca3886c5729149e7a7f2e.jpg?1277242557

Bomb Arrows ... explode on impact or would take X seconds to explode? They get a greater influence of gravity which is the relationship between them and an arrow normal? 80%,70% of maximum force?

Grappling Hooks ... Indifferent about it.

sry for my google-translated english,
Oleker

 

Archers should definitely be given back headstomps at least. Also I wish it was tweaked a bit so I didnt get headstomped for 3 full hearts of damage from two tiles up. I think that is an issue with the lag/teleporting though.

 

For me the problem sits almost entirely on the fact that jumping is gimped while charging. I guess I can kind of understand why people are upset at the charge shot + stomp combo (though that wasn't even really that powerful and the ones who complain about it are noobs), but I could live without that. I'm also fine with the takes forever to charge, impotent feeling arrows we have now. I'd be ecstatic just to have shooting mobility again.

But it's been stated firmly that archer will never have shooting mobility again, ergo archers will never be fun again.

 

That's a very sweeping statement. You don't know what the future holds. Besides plenty of people must find archer fun otherwise no-one would play as him.

 

I spare no melodramatics when it comes to my opinion of the archer.

 

LOL at the "hat-grave" picture. I personally don't want to be dancing and jumping over Knights, but I guess I can see how it would be entertaining for some. Maybe a "headstomp" would be nice if it kinda stunned the Knight and you could gtfo before he killed you.

Since we will definitely get the fire-arrow, and maybe not much else...

What would you like to see it do?

I would like to see it set fire to doors, bridges, ladders, catapults, maybe trees, and maybe players.

I would like to have it not be very complex or costly to get. Equal in price to bombs would be neat.

Before we can even have fire-arrows, we need to have a fire mechanic in the game however... Which seems like a lot more waiting to be done.

Also, maybe there will have to be some incentive or reason for building real structures out of wood, as no one wants to get their shit razed.