[228] Knight Discussion

This log is only posted for reference.
This is not meant to restrict the discussion only to the contents of the log.

Code:

Changes build 203-228:

- added pre-game launcher

- added (windows only for now) ingame web browser with links to:
(manual, wiki, IRC chat, creating account)

- added server favorites

- added in-game Manual by SirSalami

- removed player name mouse hover chat

- clicked server in server browser updates ping meter icon

- improved first ping performance in server browser

- added double click join to server browser

- added building time/match started information in server preview

- added menu music

- changed collapse physics

- fixed ambient sounds

- fixed screenshot folder on Linux

- fixed crash in editor mode when jumping on bridge

- fixed builder can't pick 3rd heart

- fixed door pick sound being wood

- builder has to stand still to build

- autoupdater does not require restart

- changed collapse physics

- console accepts \ and / for commands

- bridge takes 20 wood

- bridges and ladders can't be built only against dirt background

- optimized all game object collisions

- icons in scoreboard are double size

- class icons point in same direction and builder is distinguished from sword more

- can't shield against falling blocks

- can't destroy rooms after match has started (anti-griefing)

- fixed far view on fixed camera for lower resolutions

- added disclaimer after server startup for sv_allow_globals_mods variable

- rooms require 5 hits to destroy

- changed some HUD fonts (including above head chat)

- added command-line option to start server with specific ip,port,slots eg.
ip 123.124.125.126 port 50213 slots 32

- added break_time_static for a build time that doesn't change with number of players

 

... uhhh, what is there to discuss about knights? They haven't been changed!

 

clashing is still awful

 

Agreed. :/ I hope the fix that or improve it in the next update.

 

There needs to be a better way for knights to fight up-hill, currently whenever knights have the uphill advantage, all they do is power slash + drops on enemy's head (Add in the occasional crazy teleporting around then dying) and that almost always results in a kill, especially when there are multiple knights up-hill.

Only three ways that I know of working around this situation (Not very favorable work arounds, since very resource extensive) are too: Build a Skybridge, Tunnel underneath mountain or try to grenade launch yourself. And of course you can always try to just charge up the hill, but the moment they stone wall an upper section off with an outpost to boot you might as well forget that option.

 

I have done the down hill slash and killed 2-3 people at once multiple times. Definitely needs some sort of fix. Like maybe you should only be able to damage one person at a time with your sword. Bombs should still blow everything/everyone up.

 

If it became impossible to hit multiple people that'd be awful. It would be like literally impossible to beat jab spamming clumps of knights. It is really difficult to attack people on higher ground, but if it isn't too steep you can try shield bashing which actually gets a decent boost from low ground.

I think the solution is for the map gens to stop having such ridiculously steep hills (gentle hills would be nice).

 

Mhh, there is also something weird about this. Has anyone noticed how a headstomp + slash actually kills you immediately? This is not really normal, since a headstomp normally does a heart of damage, mostly. A slash on the other hand does 1,5 hearts damage... adding up to 2,5. Yet you normally die instantly 3 hearts if he lands on your head while slashing.

Maybe this is intended?

I totally agree that uphill battles are impossible right now... don't even try unless you have a deathwish. It helps with holding ground though. Without high ground giving you a high advantage making high ground etc would be a lot less effective.

 

This happens to me a ton, along with a bug/glitch that makes you go supersonic while slashing downhill. I don't know what it is, but on certain occasions, mostly if I slash at someone below me off of a slight ledge, I go extremely fast and get locked into it until you hit a wall or the floor of the map. It's really fucking annoying when there are pits everywhere on one side or if you are on a huge hill.

 

i think it is because you take their fall damage; if i dropped on someone's head that would have done me half a heart of fall damage if he wasn't there then i would receive that plus the head stomp leaving me with 1 and a half hearts then the slash kills me. i am not sure of this but it does explain is rather well

 

I think doing slash/stomp combos also do stomp damage at lower heights as well. I think because slashing makes you move faster you collide with people doing damage when just falling wouldn't, and I suspect the isntakilling comes from the extra speed making you push them multiple times or something.

 

That wouldn't fix the problem, since builders can create their own steep hills with the added benefit of resistance from being tunneled through by knights.

 

As Wyeth said the point of building is to give your guys and advantage. I think it could be toned down a little but I'm mostly fine with knights getting advantage from their fortifications. Though maybe this is a product of the fact that I tend to play on low player count, low life count servers and I try to win games pretty quick thus avoiding a lot of overbuilding. In addition catapults can quickly demolish stone constructions but don't do shit to dirt.

Anyways while it is pretty hard to attack uphill but there are benefits to low ground. As I said shield bashing gets a boost from low ground, and jabs have more than twice as much range going up than down- in fact there are a few downwards angles where knights can't hit at all, as I'm sure a lot of people have experienced. Combat bomb jumping is also boosted by the fact that you don't get stunned as much when you land and you land quicker.

 

Anyone else feel that knights are even more broken and inconsistent now? Even with sub 100 ping and on my desktop I find myself slashing stationary/non shielding targets for zero damage and also getting stab through my shield for 3 hearts and instantly dying, among other things.

Not to mention even more teleporting than last build.

 

When i play as a knight its totally random, somtimes i get like 4 kills in a row then i get smoked by someone who lags right in front of me in one hit (me having full health) it gets really annoying fast.

 

I Concur greatly, in previous builds where there was no clashing, it was easy to determine how to engage an enemy knight, but now when both knights stab at each other, it's the equivalent of a raised shield, and it comes down to either: who gets the most random hits from random jabbing, or who can back quickly away and get a power slash up first (Mind you that this is near impossible to do when back up to a wall).

Currently the only three advantages the shield provide are: the ability to shield bash (Extremely overpowered with the crazy teleporting physics and such), the ability to glide and the ability to guard yourself against bombs (as well as launch yourself with grenade in hand), otherwise the sword fills in the rest of the shield's role since dropping on someone with a power slash yields a better kill rate then a shield lowered and falling and you can block enemy sword attacks by simply stabbing. (You can also say block arrows and catapult rocks, but those can as easily by avoided since the attack is coming from afar.)

Also, has anyone else noticed the knight's inability to attack diagonally with stabs?

 

Earlier, I was on top of an archer in the exact same situation and could not kill him due whatever special angle he was at. Annoying as shit.

 

-Being a melee class
--Everyone walks at same speed
---You chase the enemy, only for them to teleport into the other direction
----They are archer
-----You rage.