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Devlog KAG Build 2146 - Siege Changes, Fixes and Improvements for Modding

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by Geti, Mar 3, 2017.

?

Priority for Next Fortnight

Poll closed Mar 15, 2017.
  1. More Mods for modded server

    3 vote(s)
    6.5%
  2. File Loading Changes

    4 vote(s)
    8.7%
  3. More Maps

    10 vote(s)
    21.7%
  4. Pixel Offset Fixes

    20 vote(s)
    43.5%
  5. Modded Server in More Regions

    9 vote(s)
    19.6%
  1. JaytleBee

    JaytleBee Ballista Bolt Thrower
    1. [Server] Sandbox Reborn

    Messages:
    117
    EXCUSE MEEE?
    #StopTheHate
    #RealModsHaveGrimyBlackThemesAndGuns

    (also is hosting Sandbox Reborn on the modded server shot dead now?)
     
    joshua12131415, franek123 and PUNK123 like this.
  2. franek123

    franek123 The architect of the royal castle. Donator Tester

    Messages:
    514
    Em, as Fuzzle discovered you can slash through doors now if you slash from the right angle...so ye. Pls fix

    Edit: soz I should have posted it in diff thread
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2017
  3. epsilon

    epsilon Assonist THD Team Forum Moderator Donator Tester
    1. Gather Oceania
    2. KAG World Cup 2018

    Messages:
    506
    That would be really convenient but it would make boulders way too abundant. Maybe it takes time to craft one or there is a cooldown before you can craft another.
     
  4. Geti

    Geti Please avoid PMing me (poke a mod instead) THD Team Administrator Global Moderator

    Messages:
    3,730
    We already have things working on USA I'm afraid.
    You might accept unstable mods, but we'd rather not have the official server hosting be unstable, and mods that need to be patched often are a pain. Also, if the mod in question is role-play/persistent I'm not so interested in having it on the server, as it'll be swapped out every few hours (which would break a role-play style game).

    That said, I'd be interested to have a look at it and see if it's suitable. You guys are free to host whatever, the official modded server is just to help increase user exposure to mods and help "normalise" them a bit.

    As I said right in the OP
    Please keep the discussion about that in one place if you can, thanks.

    I'm not sure about that. I get the appeal, and we'd certainly see more boulders flung, but catas are actually already very widely used and I'm not sure they really need the buff...
     
    franek123 likes this.
  5. Geti

    Geti Please avoid PMing me (poke a mod instead) THD Team Administrator Global Moderator

    Messages:
    3,730
    I'm not on KAG this week as those keeping score should know - however, I've spent this morning looking at the knight attacking through doors issue and adding messages to the modded server about when it'll restart so as to not take players by surprise.

    I've also fixed the issue with modded tiles creating solid/dangerous collapse blocks that @GoldenGuy was complaining about. New build probably tomorrow once I get a bit more time to look at/test the knight attacking through doors issue properly.
     
    Monkey_Feats and GoldenGuy like this.
  6. Potatobird

    Potatobird Haxor Forum Moderator Mapping Moderator Tester Official Server Admin

    Messages:
    777
    Kazaco97 and PUNK123 like this.
  7. Jungletoe

    Jungletoe Catapult Fodder

    Messages:
    2
    Was told to report this, but I'm getting spiked 5 FPS on the TDM map where the water floods the the map. It usually starts off decent and then spikes heavily around 5 seconds in. It seems to end up fine once the water is settled, I believe. I haven't noticed it too much in other maps with water physics, though. Maybe it just has to do with the amount of water? I should note that my computer is a garbage fire and can't run Minecraft above 20 FPS, but it is very odd to me because usually KAG gets around 30-60 FPS.

    Windows 10 x64
    Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-2320 CPU @ 3.00GHz, 3001 Mhz, 4 Core(s), 4 Logical Processor(s)
    Intel(R) HD Graphics
     
    Osmal likes this.
  8. Geti

    Geti Please avoid PMing me (poke a mod instead) THD Team Administrator Global Moderator

    Messages:
    3,730
    Thanks for following this up!

    I'm kind of amazed, as that processor should definitely be able to chew through anything the water is doing, and there's nothing especially complicated going on graphics-wise.
    Do you get similar lag if you open up sandbox and flood water from the top of the map?
    [​IMG]
    Turn test mode on in the console (hit home, type /sv_test 1, hit enter and then home again), and then type !spawnwater in chat to spawn some water at your character.

    I don't really have time for the map stuff at the moment, but I'll put that specific map on the TODO I guess.
     
  9. joshua12131415

    joshua12131415 Bison Rider Tester

    Messages:
    190
    Your pc should be able to handle it, mine is worse and runs minecraft at 60fps (as if that's some kind of measure), have you tried updating drivers and closing any apps that you're not using?

    Sometimes when you buy a new pc it comes with a whole bunch of useless stuff that has a (example) 30 day trail, if you have any of those that you don't need i would suggest uninstalling them.

    How much ram and graphics memory do you have? Or it could also be your hard drive or a virus (rarely), but something is definitely wrong.

    Open up this thing:
    upload_2017-3-8_16-58-33.png
    If you don't recognise something then you probably don't need it open. Right click it and click close/exit/etc (the only thing that you shouldn't close is any anti virus software you may have, or stuff that you're using (like steam))
     
  10. Vamist

    Vamist THD Team THD Team Tester

    Messages:
    544
    A way to get more 'fps' in water maps is to change the priority order in task manager
    All this means is that the CPU will do KAG's tasks first instead of others, unless they have the same priority or higher.
    To do this, you go into task manager>Details
    like so
    [​IMG]

    Find KAG.exe (Like I have on the picture above) and right click it>set priority>High

    [​IMG]
    Now test around in KAG, depending on what windows you have, you might be able to save the priority, which means everytime you launch that app it will start it in whatever priority you placed it in.
    When you close Kag you will have to re-do the priority next time you re-open kag (Unless you can save it like what was said above ^)
    This is just a temporary fix
     
    SirDangalang likes this.
  11. Jungletoe

    Jungletoe Catapult Fodder

    Messages:
    2
    Spawning the water in sandbox doesn't spike my FPS. Seems to only happen on that specific map?

    I have 6GB RAM. I don't think that's the issue, though.
     
  12. Fuzzle

    Fuzzle Grand Grumbler

    Messages:
    297
    Mechanisms
     
    Cohen likes this.
  13. Vamist

    Vamist THD Team THD Team Tester

    Messages:
    544
    I think it could be that.
    Or water is not optimized?

    I have an Intel Xeon E5-2650
    It has 8 threads, 16 logical processors.
    2 GHz clock speed
    + Multi-core rendering enabled (through Nvidia experience control panel)

    Gives me around a good 80 FPS on moving water maps
    Gives around 120 FPS on Idle water maps
    No water maps- 150-250 FPS

    I don't think the GPU has a huge difference on water maps, I've tried overclocking the GPU on water maps, made no difference. Plus last time I played with ann older GPU on kag with a water map I had around the same FPS
     
  14. Geti

    Geti Please avoid PMing me (poke a mod instead) THD Team Administrator Global Moderator

    Messages:
    3,730
    Water is actually one of the more aggressively optimised parts of the engine, though, like everything in KAG, the rendering could be made less cpu intensive.

    More cores/processors don't much help with KAG (all the gameplay stuff is single-threaded, so more cores only serves to help mitigate the effect of other/background processes). FWIW, that processor is intended for server work (highly parallel) not desktop gaming. That clock is fairly low as well.

    "Multi Core Rendering Enabled" this only matters at all once the data hits the graphics driver. KAG uses a (very dated, because the engine is very dated) immediate-mode alike rendering - not quite glBegin/glEnd, but nothing but textures and the tilemap vbos are stored permanently on the gpu. For animated sprites, this makes sense since they'll probably change almost every frame. For things that are more static, having more data "live" on the GPU would probably speed up rendering.

    However:
    Reminder that KAG updates at 30fps and at any point before this, you're spending any "extra" CPU time re-rendering frames rather than rendering "new" frames. This can still help with some people's low-framerate sensitivity up until the point where fps = monitor refresh rate, but it's not really a measure of how well the logic part of the game is running.

    Now, if that was all gibberish to you, never mind :)

    I'd be inclined to agree, but I'm not sure what on that map cause "spiking" or a sudden drop to 5fps. There's just an oscillator, toggles and a blocker.

    That's good to know - do you get lag on the other mechanism TDM maps? Trying to narrow it down.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2017
  15. Vamist

    Vamist THD Team THD Team Tester

    Messages:
    544

    Thanks for that. I'l be searching to learn more about it. I'm still a noob at the details of how hardware and components work.
     
  16. kiaran

    kiaran Ballista Bolt Thrower
    1. Aphelion's Roleplay

    Messages:
    76
    too be honest, nothing much is ever getting added to kag anymore. are you only fixing bugs :P
     
    joshua12131415 likes this.
  17. Geti

    Geti Please avoid PMing me (poke a mod instead) THD Team Administrator Global Moderator

    Messages:
    3,730
    Honestly - pretty much, yes.

    I'm happy to do mapcycle updates, I'd like to do more heads and I'm happy to adjust balance to the metagame, but we want to move on to other games. We've been working on KAG for coming up to 6 years - there's not much we want to do with it that has its place in KAG as it stands.

    I understand that some folks would probably be happy for us to constantly be adding more content, but this isn't a sandbox game like terraria where you can just drop in another mob or item and it'll work out - anything we add to vanilla has to have its place in team-based multiplayer - CTF at the very least. That means a lot of work and a lot of grumpy players until we get the balance right, and it's not particularly rewarding or satisfying.

    We haven't ruled out doing a sequel at some point, but we want to work on other ideas before then.

    We mostly means myself here - MM hasn't worked much on KAG for years, though he is looking at doing some development this year.

    If you want more content after 6 years - it's probably time to look to the modding scene.
     
  18. kiaran

    kiaran Ballista Bolt Thrower
    1. Aphelion's Roleplay

    Messages:
    76
    lel, ive never played a vanilla server in a year you know
     
  19. franek123

    franek123 The architect of the royal castle. Donator Tester

    Messages:
    514
    Ctf masterrace. How can people play shit casual mods only?
     
    BarsukEughen555, Magmus and PUNK123 like this.
  20. i couldnt care less about more content, but:
    a) is there any hope of ever fixing the bug where you see players being stuck on the "stunned" frame?
    b) can we finalyl remove four rivers from the rotation holy foock