CTF PooManCHU_CraggyFlats [REJECTED]

Hello everyone, taking the critiques of my last map into consideration, i went and redesigned the mid from the ground up for better movement and game-play, i have also made smaller changes to the bases. hope you enjoy

Map name: CraggyFlats i know it's somewhat redundant but i like the ring of it.
Symmetrical: Y
Special features : 2 flags per team one in red zone on each side
lower and upper tiers for more paths.
not over saturated with gold.

Map .png:

and in game shots:

 

Nice map, I just feel like mid could be "dug in" too much.

 

thank you for your input, Im sorry but i am having a hard time understanding what you mean by "dig in" could you please explain how you think mid would play out in a real game, and why that's a negative thing.

 

Dig in is slang for, I guess, entrenching. In your maps case, personally, I feel that whoever establishes mid control, would have it for most of he game.

For example, build time would go great, the early fights would play out really well. Once the game enters the middle stages and control of mod is properly established, the team that has taken mid would be able to completely fortify the cave area of mid, practically making it impossible for the other team to retake. For example, stone door and walls could be used to easily block off choke points, making it hard for the enemy to access parts. Especially due to the fact of slanted tunnels would make it hard to just keg into it.

TLDR- overall a great map, though mid could be held too easily with minimal building effort.

 

Thank you i hope to make more good one's in the future, i will always take the time out to read something when someone else has spent time writing to me.

Yeah i can see that happening, on this map, as i do on a lot of maps that are in the cycle atm, i don't like it either i main knight and trap door spiders are really annoying, too an extent this cannot be helped, mainly depending on the builders skill, but i still have a few ideas that might alleviate the issue somewhat. i have been pondering if i should remove the middle dirt wall pillar, it would make the him seem a bit unrealistic but it would make it harder to wall up. if mid is taken, at ratting from mid is not is straight forward as in most maps, there are some bedrock formations that you have to mine around. also with a little work you can flood there tunnel with the pool of water if they rat underneath.

Apart from that, i dunno maybe make the tunnels wider, what do you reckon?

 

I think if you made the tunnels wider and maybe remove a bit of the bedrock and the pillar would probably fix it. Otherwise great job man.

 

thank you for the complement, i have made the changes to mid, and some other little things that were bugging me how's this

 

That's looking nice, maybe add a single dirt block or something to block archers abusing the little channel below mid (similar to what the map with the water underneath and a land bridge above did. Not completely blocking it off, allowing like a one block step to stand on, but not necessarily allowing them complete access.

 

No real mid to capture and determine a point of a map you control which makes progressing in the map hard and promotes rush strategies like bomb arrow spam. Recourse spread seems random. In the caves of the middle part knight movement seems unnecessarily restricted. A possibility of creating a cancerous water pit in front of the back flag.

Rejected

 

thank you for you input, i hope i am able to refute this, the last time a another one of my map's got rejected i was told this by PUNK12...

"For now it is rejected. Feel free edit the map and itll be moved back to the general mapping subsection to be looked at again. If you disagree with my conclusion on the map make sure to tell me because i wouldnt want to be wrong and keep a map off of official because of an error"

you mention no such thing in your message, so i am assuming it is the case that i am able too.

1. No real mid too cap, too start with define "real" it's a bit vague for my likeing, what i think you mean, and i could be wrong here, is that mid is too hard to hold because most of the choke points have alternate paths, in my opinion this is not a bad thing, i have played far too meny maps on the official cycle that have mids witch are too easy to cap and hold, (anecdotal evidence i know) and lets face it with the in-game auto balance being piss poor, at best. an easy to cap mid is detrimental.

2.and determine a point of a map you control which makes progressing in the map hard and promotes rush strategies like bomb arrow spam

I am sorry but i cannot understand what you are trying to say here, please explain

3.Resource spread seems random, well ok there are more mats at mid than at the base's excluding gold, it's also more easily accessible, so distribution is not random, actual vain placement although it may seem random, is also not random, i did want the .png file of the map to look nice so i placed the mats were there are becasue i thought it looked good, this doesn't effect game-play but it's not random. do you think there is too much stone, i have been wondering that myself.

4.In the caves of the middle part knight movement seems unnecessarily restricted. Have you loaded up this map in-game, the caves are 6 blocks tall, that's one block off the jump height limit, and plenty enough room for fighting, directly in the middle however, you are right, there i bit cramped for my likeing and i have been trying to think of a way i can fix that issue.

5.A possibility of creating a cancerous water pit in front of the back flag. Sure it's possible, just like it's possible on evey map that has little ponds. calling it cancer is your opinion. a lot of people think ratting,batting,and sky-bridge plat siege is cancer, that doesn't mean it's shouldn't be a part of the game, (excluding sky-brides of course yuk. pretty sure castle machicolations weren't that hearty.) any way back to the topic at hand. water traps are not that big of a problem, just keg it, or build over it no big deal.

thank you for reading i respectfully disagree with your judgement, was this map rejected on just your say so, or do PUNK and Joop agree aswell.

 

For your information my ingame name is Joop so yes I agree and yes punk agreed because we discuss the maps together. Also I only have 10 minutes till I have to head off to school so I can't write a detailed reply right now. I will get to that later today.

Just some quick points:

1. Yes you can edit the map and it will be moved back.

2. Having a point to control makes progress in the map easier and reduces the change of stalemates and relying on rush tactics like bomb arrows which most people would agree is not a fun way to play (this is not just my opinion on it).

Having somewhere to put down a line and say everything behind this is ours binds a team together, having no place to set your foot down makes people play more individual. This is why most flat maps don't work because there simply isn't a place that you can deny an enemy from crossing.

3. The caves when leading up restrict knight movement is what I was trying to say, not the path leading in.

4. Being able to create a water pit makes it harder to capture the flag, it was a minor point but I think you misunderstood it. Its not that people create water traps because those are rather bad but that a lake up to the flag even a small one can make movement slow and makes it easier to be picked off by the defending team. This combined with no place to firmly set your foot in makes it very hard to capture the flag.

5. "i did want the .png file of the map to look nice" you shouldn't add stone somewhere because it "looks better in the .png file" that makes no sense. Recourse placement can effect how a map is played. Having it everywhere will make the map chaotic. If you were to instead not have stone everywhere but at one spot then a team might think to put a tower there and thus capture a position. Placing resources in places because it makes the .png file look nicer is what I would call random recourse placement

The edits aren't even that big, the previous post was fairly clear.

 

Thank you Joop i am glad to hear that a can re edit, sorry your pic threw me out i was expecting you to have the same profile pic and name as on YouTube.
i will wait for your more detailed reply, until i reply. but i just wanted to say something about .2 mainly about stalemates,i have thought about them alot, it's a real conundrum. on one hand we want to have balanced teams so it's not just an infuriating unfair steam roll, but on the other hand we don't want there to be stalemates or have to use rush tactics. it sure is a hard one.

Tbh with ya Joop in all my days playing KAG, and i have been playing since KAG was a free to play alpha. (anecdotal evidence coming up i know) the flag is usually all-ways, like 90% of the time captured in one of three ways either by a builder ratting or by someone blowing up the wall to the flag with a Keg, those are the main two ways, the third one is the 3-4 bomb arrows spam. no matter how you use the or keg be it a normal keg run or a cata keg, or a radoken keg, there all rush tactics it's the same with bomb arrows, one second the flag was sealed and then boom a keg or bomb arrow go's off in a split second there wall is gone then you rush in, rush tactic, also if your slow doing the other team will cotton on and stop you so you have to rush. the only one to cap the flag without using a "rush" tactic is to rat. that's just how flags are capped

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 23, 2017, Original Post Date: Sep 21, 2017 ---

Hello joop, i dont want to be rude, i realize you may be busy, but i was just wondering if you are still planning on writing out a more detailed response, you say in your comment that you will write back to me later that day. it's just i would like your full opinion as to why the map got rejected, so i can fully understand what i need to change, if you dont wish to do that i can make the changes based on your already existing message, Thank you