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Help me buy a server dedicated to KAG.

Discussion in 'Server Help' started by Vanguarde, Feb 22, 2012.

  1. Vanguarde

    Vanguarde 'Most Hated' 2013

    Messages:
    205
    Hi guys!

    I have decided that I am going to buy a server, ( get the parts to build it myself ) but I want to get one up and running that is tuned very specifically to the demands that KAG puts on servers. The thing will never used for anything other than KAG.

    My budget is $5,000.

    I would like to be able to host the maximum amount of players (32), and also host the higher, unofficial amounts of player slots we see online. 32 is the max supported, but we have servers with 40, etc. Can you run a server for 64 players with the right hardware, or is the game code just not able to do it right now no matter the hardware you throw at it?

    What would be the optimal internet connection for the above amount of players? I want to set up the connection for future use, so if the game ever goes to 64 players official, my server will be rock solid.

    Any details on the specific bandwith needs of each player, etc?

    - Mike
     
  2. Jermex

    Jermex Shopkeep Stealer

    Messages:
    35
    I don't mean to poop on your parade, But I have been trying to offer a server for a while.
    The fact is, there are plenty of servers, and no real NEED for more.
     
  3. Vanguarde

    Vanguarde 'Most Hated' 2013

    Messages:
    205
    I thought there was a need for good servers outside the USA?
     
    inactive_account likes this.
  4. dnmr

    dnmr Ministry of ban Global Moderator Forum Moderator Donator Tester

    Messages:
    667
    don't you live in the states though?
     
  5. Vanguarde

    Vanguarde 'Most Hated' 2013

    Messages:
    205
    I do live in the states, yes. But for KAG to grow I read that MM said servers are needed in specific places. I think the USA is saturated. ;)

    I love KAG and I am taking it as serious as those guys ( I was one of them ) who are obsessed with flight simulators on the PC.

    I am sure the amount of money I am talking about can find a good server and host in those places MM wants.
    I just need the advice.
     
  6. dnmr

    dnmr Ministry of ban Global Moderator Forum Moderator Donator Tester

    Messages:
    667
    how is it gonna work if you want to build it yourself then?
     
  7. Teemo

    Teemo T͔̕e͖͚̖̯̩̪͙͝e͡m̖o̤̪͘ Forum Moderator Donator Tester

    Messages:
    244
    I average 150-300 players on my servers during peak/weekends, so hopefully some of this is useful.

    $5k won't get you anything too decent. For any kind of server, you are going to NEED ipmi/kvm, RAID10 with decent disks. You are coloing. This means: you need OS reinstall? $100+. You need someone to log in your server once because you forgot firewall was on? $100+. Equinix charges me $250-350/hour for remote hands, minimum half hour increment (though they are kind of dicks)... and that is just to put a DVD in or reboot a system. If you need actual help in software, plan for much more. This is why you want a good IPMI/DRAC/iLO/KVM/KVM equivalent.

    ** NOTE ** You are responsible for ALL hardware. If something breaks, YOU WILL BE DOWN until you ship them more hardware. You will want to see if they have a spares locker at the datacenter where they can hold spare parts and swap them out for you. This means you will need to budget for ~*~*EXTRA PARTS*~*~ in addition to your server. Get RAID10 minimum. You do not want total disk failure when your box is that far away from you. Get warranties/replacements/etc (Dell is good for this if you're going prebuilt).

    Be aware that many places require 1year+ contracts on space and bandwidth.

    I don't know how technically inclined you are so: You will pay for power you use. Don't do dumb stuff like overclocking or putting blue LEDs on it (I have seen a customer with flashing blue and green LEDs on their stuff it is hilarious but awful please don't do this)

    Shipping is a few hundred, customs/tax import is a few hundred into the EU. Maybe more. You can run a 64 slot. It will start. It won't stay up long. Blame the code. KAG is single threaded(?) as far as I can tell, refuses to use more than processor 0 on my stuff no matter if I try forcing it.

    Let's say 1Mbps per player. I really really hope you know what 95th percentile billing is and how you can get a surprise $$$$$$HUGE$$$/month bill out of it. Colocation billing is based on committing on a rate per second average. 95% of the month you have to be at or below this committed rate. Overages cost a lottttttttttttttttttttttt.

    Where do you get your stuff from? If you don't have a usual supplier, I recommend Curt at amadisystems or Chong at Apaq Digital.
     
  8. Vanguarde

    Vanguarde 'Most Hated' 2013

    Messages:
    205
    Thank you so much for this info! I understand it all as I have a background in computers. The good news is that I have my old service buddy of mine who is still stationed in Japan and I sent him email about this as he is a very avid gamer as well. I think Japan is one of the places MM's said servers are needed.

    I will feel much better with Jim handling my computer stuff and issues OTG instead of a company. He loves this sort of stuff and has way way more knowledge than I do in terms of computing, it is a big part of his job in the military. Let's see what he says, I know if he has the time he will help me as I saved his ass from trouble more than once in Japan. 0_0 ( don't ask, we were younger lol )
     
  9. Teemo

    Teemo T͔̕e͖͚̖̯̩̪͙͝e͡m̖o̤̪͘ Forum Moderator Donator Tester

    Messages:
    244
    It's okay. i've had several gay experiences in boarding school too, I understand.
    I don't know what OTG means, but Japan typically requires your national ID, and prepayment of 6m-1y of fees as far as I can tell (except Sakura who pretty much doesn't sell to any foreigner). It's kind of a pain in the ass getting anything there if you don't live there.

    Japan traffic also tends to bottleneck exiting the country horribly too (they have fast residential internet but it's pretty much just in-country)
     
  10. EchoLynx

    EchoLynx Catapult Fodder

    Messages:
    21
    On the behalf of the community, thank you. You are very generous.
    I would recommend you rent a virtual private server overseas, rather than building one from scratch. If you pick a good provider, you will be better off than you would be if you had tried to build one because they would have lots of redundancy, dedicated bandwidth, high-performance hardware, and the benefits of scale that, even with $5,000, you wouldn't be able to afford for very long. In addition, you would be able to focus on running the KAG server, and not maintianing the hardware the KAG server runs on.

    As an added bonus, a VPS is usually rented monthly, so if you decide to pursue another project or simply get out of the server business, you can do at any time and the most you'd lose is a month's fee.

    Then comes the question of how much server you need. To be honest, nobody but the developers know for sure - and they haven't written anywhere close to enough documentation for the KAG Server. Almost everything we know about it is the result of observation, trial, and error. That said, in my experience the largest bottleneck in a KAG server is always the internet connection. It's not bandwidth intensive, but it is very time sensitive - a poor network connection means high pings and lots of lag for everyone on the server.

    The server program itself is tiny - less than 10MiB. It's memory footprint is similarly miniscule.

    As strange as it sounds, any decent VPS provider's smallest package would probably work just fine. I personally use Linode for my server. I have their smallest plan (512MiB RAM, 200GB monthly bandwidth, and 20GiB of storage space) for my KAG server and 4-5 other services, and my KAG server's ping is 66-67ms (as low as I have ever seen it anywhere) when idle, 100-150ms with 16 players connected. I don't know the meaning of downtime; I have not shut down my server for 235 days (for no particular reason) and I've never had downtime because of Linode. Their custom-built control panel is very easy to use, their library is great for beginners, and their support is both fast and thorough. They also just opened their sixth data center - in Tokyo, Japan.

    Their basic plan is $19.95/mo. With $5,000, you could host a KAG server for over 20 years. Needless to say, I think you should go with them. They're reasonable, and a VPS is MUCH cheaper than colocation.
     
  11. Teemo

    Teemo T͔̕e͖͚̖̯̩̪͙͝e͡m̖o̤̪͘ Forum Moderator Donator Tester

    Messages:
    244
    It leaks horribly when running for a long time.
    Turn off compression, 300-400KB/sec per player+ (also uses a bit less cpu + more stable server)
    I would specifically ask first, because with 32 players it will pound IO and CPU very very hard. Trying to run it on AWS on non-specifically-high-CPU instances results in your instance being heavily throttled. Linode is cool. I wouldn't run it on anything cheaper than Linode though. If you're going to do this, absolutely NEVER EVER EVER use openvz or virtuozzo or linux-vserver.
     
  12. MrRedemption

    MrRedemption Catapult Fodder

    Messages:
    14
    Stupid idea of building a server yourself, its best to buy hosting for a few years with the $5,000.00 you have as Kag is nothing like Minecraft where its RAM-intensive as Kag doesn't use much resources. I would just get a small VPS yearly plan which will easily do you a good 32 players, should support up to 64 to.

    If you don't know who to choose for a VPS check out http://www.lowendbox.com/ as they will give you the latest deals and you should be able to find a good priced VPS from there. Good luck with the server anyways. :)
     
  13. Teemo

    Teemo T͔̕e͖͚̖̯̩̪͙͝e͡m̖o̤̪͘ Forum Moderator Donator Tester

    Messages:
    244
    Awful idea. Really really bad. Don't do this.

    If you're going to go with a VM pick something upscale like Linode or whatever. Two seconds of other people on the node abusing results in your entire server getting banned for speedhacking.

    This is if you aren't booted for "resource abuse" and "abusing fair share cpu" in the first place. It doesn't use much ram, but it will molest whatever CPU core it can get its hands on. Cheap systems typically do not guarantee MHz or SPEC, but use "fair share".

    also never use openvz or virtuozzo
     
  14. MrRedemption

    MrRedemption Catapult Fodder

    Messages:
    14
    I hope your kidding, they can check each individual server to see how much RAM, CPU etc. is being used so why would they take down an entire server.... Also your not going to need a huge dedicated server just for a Kag server, it doesn't use too much resources at all. So how exactly is it a bad idea?
     
  15. Teemo

    Teemo T͔̕e͖͚̖̯̩̪͙͝e͡m̖o̤̪͘ Forum Moderator Donator Tester

    Messages:
    244
    There are places that guarantee CPU or give you 1+ vCPU/core (KVM, Xen, VMware ESX{i}) and guaranteed IOPS. Those typically work out better but are $20-40/month. I run a few servers on http://genesishosting.com/main/solutions_virtual_infrastructure.cfm and it's fine there.

    "Low end" systems guarantee something like 100-300MHz if at all, otherwise it's something called "fair share CPU" -- KAG absolutely needs consistent performance or it *will* ban your entire server for "hack detection". If someone else on the node pounds disk or decides to forkbomb, your server will flip out and ban everyone for hacking.

    I have a few cheapo boxes from LEB (and hang out there fairly often) for DNS and a monitoring node. This is primarily what it's used for, and what the point of it is for. I don't want other people pounding what little CPU there is left.

    Also, OpenVZ systems are not real VMs, they are literally glorified chroots, it is very much possible to take out the entire VM host from one portion of it. OpenVZ cannot truly guarantee CPU cores or dedicate CPU cores - essentially just doing 'weighting' of which processes are more important.

    This is not the case with all virtualisation technologies, but with OpenVZ they can see all processes running and log in as root invisibly without notice to you though.


    In short, if you are going to use a VPS, pick Linode or NFO or something that won't hate you or result in every other customer hating you..
     
    EchoLynx and UnnamedPlayer like this.
  16. Shadlington

    Shadlington THD Team THD Team Administrator Global Moderator

    Messages:
    1,562
    I am yet another linode user.
    They're fantastic.
    I would definitely recommend them.
     
  17. JackMcDaniels

    JackMcDaniels Haxor

    Messages:
    190
    I heard servers in France are pretty cheap to rent.