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Let's discuss the reasons people 'Grief'.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Vanguarde, Mar 1, 2012.

  1. Vanguarde

    Vanguarde 'Most Hated' 2013

    Messages:
    205
    I am fascinated by Greifers. At first, they annoyed me greatly and they still do, but like um... Zombies, they keep coming and coming at the servers no matter what anyone does.

    In game, I am trying to do mini-interviews with the Griefers to see why they are doing it. My partner's profession is in therapy, and he has many suggestions as to what it could be based on what I have told him. He is not into games at all, but I tried to explain to him the nature of the situation.

    How about we explore this subject a little as to why people 'Grief' their own team? I think this subject is a little more complex than we might all realize!

    First, there are many types of griefers. Here are some that I have seen.

    1: Blatant 'in the open' destruction of the griefers own castle.

    2: Sneaky destruction of ones own castle. For example, one key stone in a wall at a specific time hit, to bring it all down.

    3: On again, off again greifer. Someone who plays the game as it is supposed to be played, but then all of a sudden begins to grief for some reason. And back and forth.

    4: 'Stealth' griefers. People who grief and then switch teams back and forth to avoid being kicked.

    5: Intelligent greifers. These are the guys who carefully and sneakily place a stone right above his own teams trees " stumping " the trees to deny the team wood. They also continually dig the stone out of the ground - even when at max stone, to deny the team stone for a prolonged fight.

    6: Sadistic griefers. These guys place spikes in specific locations they notice their team mates landing on after a jump over something.

    7: "Chaos" griefers. People who only grief when heavy action is on screen, to hide their actions and to create doubt on the team in regards to 'who did it'

    8: Skybridge griefers. People who just cannot resist taking down a skybridge - and that is the only griefing they do.

    So, why do we think people grief? Are they Sadistic? Do they get a genuine thrill from it? Are these the types of people who abused animals as a kid? Are they teenagers in a broken home? Are they kids with failed parents who do not take care of them correctly? Are they young adults who have no direction in life and are drifting with no purpose?

    I am my ideas based on years of dealing with 'teamkillers' in hundreds of games. I am curious as to what the community comes up with here.

    Let's have fun,
    -
     
  2. Cadbury

    Cadbury You can't escape. Donator

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  3. Knight1

    Knight1 Shark Slayer

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    Some people just want to see the world burn.

    Also combine internet anonymity with immaturity, and you have yourself a person who will take it apone himself, to get a reaction. Some might have never been taught as a child to share, or be a good person. Combine this with internet anonymity as well, and you have a greifer. Lets be honest here, for some one who only wants to destroy, we can't do much about it. Ban, big woop, they are still anonymous and can make another account. This happens in ALL games with destruction or creativity. Even in normal games, people still block. They just like reactions.
     
  4. ArrowSteps

    ArrowSteps Catapult Fodder

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    The reason is quite simple. People grief because it is fun for some people. I personally deem those people mentally challenged though, as they are pretty much the exact same kind of people as those who destroy sand castles, burn public trash cans for no reason, team up to beat lone kids for lunch money and drunkenly stab other people in clubs because they think that someone didn't like their hairstyle.
     
  5. Vanguarde

    Vanguarde 'Most Hated' 2013

    Messages:
    205
    Ah yes, that "internet anonymity"

    People acting like asses due to the fact they use fake names online.

    Do you think the instances of griefing would drop dramatically if people were not as anonymous online as they are now? Meaning: It would be just as easy for someone with no technical experience to I.D. someone online, as opposed to now where you need tech skills and other resources to take away the limited anonymous nature of being online?

    I have found that kids and teenagers usually behave when they are at risk of losing something that is important personally to them. We all need to treat each other nicer online. Some will need to be forced to be nice, just like we force them to behave to societies standards offline.
     
  6. Froghead48

    Froghead48 Haxor

    Messages:
    703
    that will never happen. ever. not even on facebook.

    on topic: people grief becuase they are either total asshole's, or pissed off. best thing to do is ban them.
     
  7. thebonesauce

    thebonesauce All life begins and ends with Nu Staff Alumni
    1. MOLEing Over Large Estates - [MOLE]
    2. The Ivory Tower of Grammar-Nazis

    Messages:
    2,554
    I wonder why I'm ignoring you, Vangaurde...

    Anyway, it IS fascinating, until you realize it's a bunch of twelve year olds who downloaded the game for free and want to, for all intensive purposes, cause grief. That's really all there is to it.
     
  8. Naime

    Naime Drill Rusher

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    45
    From what I have expierenced, I just have two categories of griefers:

    1) Griefer who are fascinated by collapse

    Mostly understandable, they like it when constructions fell down like lego bricks. This happends a lot with skybridges, and a lot of new players want to try it out. I never griefed skybridges to harm team, only to make rocks rain on enemy, but I can understand it when people wanna destroy it. Having this thin loooong construction... so delicate, weak, bowing in the wind, and if you touch it, it rains down like snow flakes...

    Those do mostly open griefing, like in the middle of the group and dont care that they are being called "griefers". They are mostly harmless, because easibly removable (if you got an active team)

    2) Griefers which wanna be a pain in the ass

    Now these are ugly.
     
  9. Beef

    Beef ก็็็็็็็็็็็็็ʕ•͡ᴥ•ʔ ก้้้้้้้้้้้ Global Moderator Forum Moderator Tester

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    Empathy isn't an innate human quality. It develops over a life time, often not becoming full on until the late teens, sometimes never. In a team based game with as much freedom as KAG, lack of empathy means a shitty player. Sure, if you have a high enough skill level you don't need the team, but I can think of literally three guys who are that good, and they all prefer to play with the team anyway.


    Anyway, I have a wealth of experience with griefers, and I'd like to share some conclusions I've found over the past 10 months of my KAG experience. The average age of a griefer is quite low; between 10 and 14. The typing and verbal reasoning of griefers is usually very low as well; They struggle to understand simple questions (I try to help borderline ignorant/griefers by asking leading questions, to help them learn for next time. "Why is throwing the OP behind base into a pit a bad idea?" for instance, and getting the most retarded answers in reply), attempt the most blatant, pitiful attempts at manipulation ("I REPORT U POWER ABUSSER", "plz unfreeze mod i sorry i wont do it again plz", etc [those are actual quotes by the way, names withheld]) and usually have a real shitty attitude too (What does anyone else matter? My fun is more important)

    The skill level is often ridiculously low. If someone has a 3:24kd ratio, and they grief, then it points to a severe frustration; if they're not good enough to break the enemies stuff, they'll take it out on a team that can't hurt them.

    This said, you still have a few people who are just jerks. Joining, instantly beginning to grief, quitting before they can be banned. This type is maybe 1 in 20 of griefing, and the most easily dealt with (It's clear they're not just new and ignorant, but actively malicious, so there's no pause before handing out an instant, permanent ban from the game)
     
    Nixito, Madoka and UnnamedPlayer like this.
  10. Chinizz

    Chinizz Arsonist

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    573
    They don't have hats. And if they have hats, they want more.

    In fact, I don't want to understand them, even if I know that we should understand them.
     
  11. thebonesauce

    thebonesauce All life begins and ends with Nu Staff Alumni
    1. MOLEing Over Large Estates - [MOLE]
    2. The Ivory Tower of Grammar-Nazis

    Messages:
    2,554
    Sad thing is, if they DO have hats, they wasted $10. I feel sorry for the premium griefers that are like, 9-14 years old, because their parents probably bought them a premium account. They're gonna get a whoopin' soooooo bad.

    In general, there are a few people who could take on the entire army themselves, but without a team, you're screwed in this game. If you come in and think you can be Rambo all game every game, you're gonna die. A lot. The key to success is to work with your dudes, and if some of them are too stupid, let them throw themselves to the wolves. Work with the other experienced players and you can't lose.
     
  12. Chinizz

    Chinizz Arsonist

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    573
    I fell bad for the parents...

    And I love to play offensive builder for Rambo. On a server, we've been a 2 men army, rampaging everyting on the way, it feel so good. When you play a good game, the feeling is so good ! Why griefers grief, if you could play well, even if you're newbie ?

    What is harder to understand is experienced players, very good player, who... grief.
     
  13. UnnamedPlayer

    UnnamedPlayer Arsenist Administrator Global Moderator Tester
    1. MOLEing Over Large Estates - [MOLE]

    Messages:
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    No. Try to see my point. As ArrowSteps said, there are some people who do mean stuff in real life. Those people will continue acting the same way on internet, no matter what terrible consequences you use to threat them. For example, I have a long time friend that used to beat other people when we were younger. Everyone knew that was him? Yes. He was suspended for a week? Yes. Did this changed his behaviour? No, and he keep doing that until he grow up (today he is one of my calmest friends).
    People anonymity don't make people jerks. Just make jerks anonymous jerks. We have a social network powered by Google on brazil called orkut (most of brazilian used that instead of facebook until one year ago) and you would be surprise in what people do with their self-images.
    So summarizing: I don't think that anonymity have anything to do with the way people behave badly online including the griefers topic.

    I belive that people grief because of:

    1 - Fun. Trolling, griefing and jerking around is fun. If you aren't mature enought to follow some rules and behave yourself you will probably ruin other people game just for fun. Think like this: The same thing you feel knoking out that tower that your enemy builded for half and hour they feel destroying your stuff.

    2 - Frustration. Like Beef said "if they're not good enough to break the enemies stuff, they'll take it out on a team that can't hurt them." This also leads to that kind of "justice" griefer ("I was just balancing things out").

    3 - Personal Avenge. A few days ago we have a griefer called lovelove. He had a ok k:d ratio and was acctually psuhing the other team. But I killed him some times and joined his team he started to do everything he could to kill or annoy me (including twowing the OP on enemy trap). I often saw people who can't understand tower concepts engage into flaming and then just griefing that building. Last week a guy filled my acavado trap with stone cause I builded even when he said it was 'retarded and useless'. Some people can't understand that even if you don't like someone, it dosen't give you the right to destroy a team building.

    4 - To see it fall. Like Naime said, collapsing stuff with is one of the most fun part of the game. Add this with the trolling fun and you have a griefer.

    5 -
    Beef also commented that. You can't do nothing for these except banning them and hoping they find something else to do (like burning ants or crying in the corner).
     
  14. Gorrosh

    Gorrosh Catapult Fodder

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    you missed one, Number 9, You kill the griefer that just, cuts your high wall bridge, and you had a cataplut fireing down at the emeny, when your own team worker comes alone and Cuts it down, and u die


    i saw who did, it and i griefed the hell out of him, by breakin blocks over hes head, throwing bombs at him, and traped him in a hole and kept rebuilding stone.

    all griefers die by my hands when i see one, and ive seen many and killed many, bring them on
     
  15. Beef

    Beef ก็็็็็็็็็็็็็ʕ•͡ᴥ•ʔ ก้้้้้้้้้้้ Global Moderator Forum Moderator Tester

    Messages:
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    Yeah, don't do that. Get a screenshot of them griefing and take it to the report griefers thread, hit tab and mark them as a griefer, or open up the ingame irc and type !guard to get a guard to come and sort everything out.

    I appreciate the sentiment, but someone else could get caught in the crossfire, or vigilantes such as yourself could harass the wrong person, or many other unpleasant, unintended outcomes.
     
  16. Rukioish

    Rukioish Catapult Fodder

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    Tbh sometimes its an accident. I messed up a wall, and someone was trying to fix it, but we forgot to put up backwalls so it collapsed. Needless to say, everyone started shouting "griefer!!!!" which was pretty silly. So I told them it was an accidnet and he didn't mean it.
     
  17. Berzerkra

    Berzerkra Builder Stabber

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    People grief because they're able to do so. KAG has a free2play part and because of this the repercussions are laughable at best (hence they just create new accounts). So yes, I'm glad that there is Premium and I'll gonna be even happier every time the price is rising. Obviously you'll gonna be at least a little more responsible and think about your actions if you shoved out your hard earned cash for the game since it can get taken away from you and you would have to pay again.
     
  18. Sir_spaghetti

    Sir_spaghetti Catapult Fodder

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    Well in games that need you to pay for playing you can find plenty of griefers too. People do it because they can, that's all. Premium won't fix it. The only thing that can get you away from griefers is making/joining a guild or other organised player group and play with other groups. Those people treat it seriously and want to have fun as a team most of the time.
     
  19. Berzerkra

    Berzerkra Builder Stabber

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    So you're actually implying/believing/saying that KAG wouldn't have significantly less griefers if there wasn't a free2play part?

    PS: I didn't say that it would fix the problem btw. That's impossible. Humans will be Humans.
     
  20. Sir_spaghetti

    Sir_spaghetti Catapult Fodder

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    Maybe a little less, but still they wouldn't dissappear from the game. You think that paying 10 dollars for a game would stop someone from being an asshole? :)