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[1180] Trapblock

Discussion in 'Building Critiques' started by icemusher, Jul 30, 2014.

  1. Well, it's something I thought of, please tell me if there's any flaws.
    upload_2014-7-30_12-32-8.png Weaknesses-Slightly resource heavy, remove spikes if too much. Drill-prone
    Strengths- Two archer holes.
    - Knights can't get through, would have to use several bombs
     
  2. Trumbles

    Trumbles Bison Rider

    Messages:
    454
    Could collapse with two bombs.

    Also, it would take a friendly much longer to get to the door, than it would take an enemy to get to them.
     
    Apronymous likes this.
  3. Yeah, didn't have time to finish, could thicken it with more stone at back.
    --- Double Post Merged, Jul 30, 2014 ---
    Oh shoot, I forgot about backwalling it,... It's meant to be the front of some tower.
     
  4. Trumbles

    Trumbles Bison Rider

    Messages:
    454
    You also didn't put solid corner blocks on the archer nest, so I could shoot into it / enter it from the outside.
     
  5. Like I said, didn't have time, I'll add a complete version. This is a quick version to build. I guess I should change the corners, thanks for the feed back, I was wondering if there was soemthing wrong this structure.
     
  6. Dargona1018

    Dargona1018 Ballista Bolt Thrower

    Messages:
    569
    I remember seeing something similar to this a couple months ago, and it stumped me tremendously, and led that team too ultimately be undefeated for an hour more since I was lame and hadn't heard of battle-building yet.

    But it wasn't as resource heavy as it was only one layer of trapblocks, had spikes on only one part, and the friendly's would only have to jump back and forth a time or two to get to the door. I'll try to post something soon.

    But until then, emote-picture!
    :dirt: = Trapblock

    :castle_wall::castle_wall::castle_wall::castle_wall::castle_wall::castle_wall::castle_wall:
    :stone_door::castle_bg::castle_bg::castle_bg::castle_bg::castle_bg::dirt:
    :stone_door::castle_bg::castle_bg::castle_bg::castle_bg::castle_bg::dirt:
    :castle_wall::spikes_bg::castle_bg::castle_bg::castle_bg::castle_bg::dirt:
    :castle_wall::spikes_bg::castle_bg::castle_bg::castle_bg::castle_bg::dirt:
    :castle_wall::spikes_bg::castle_bg::castle_bg::castle_bg::castle_bg::dirt:
    :castle_wall::spikes_bg::castle_bg::castle_bg::castle_bg::castle_bg::dirt:
    :castle_wall::spikes_bg::castle_bg::castle_bg::castle_bg::castle_bg::dirt:
    :castle_wall::spikes_bg::castle_bg::castle_bg::castle_bg::castle_bg::castle_bg:
    :castle_wall::spikes_bg::castle_bg::castle_bg::castle_bg::castle_bg::castle_bg:
    :castle_wall::spikes_bg::castle_bg::castle_bg::castle_bg::castle_bg::castle_bg:
    :castle_wall::spikes_bg::spikes_bg::spikes_bg::spikes_bg::spikes_bg::spikes_bg:
    :castle_wall::castle_wall::castle_wall::castle_wall::castle_wall::castle_wall::castle_wall:

    It works quite effectively on the water-side, and you can add in an archer's nest and a siege vehicle roost. (bird puns:zchicken:)
     
  7. 8x

    8x Elimination Et Choix Traduisant la Realité Forum Moderator Tester Official Server Admin
    1. The Young Blood Collective - [YB]

    Messages:
    1,314
    Master Splinter.jpg

    The main problem with all the structures based on trapblocks is that master splinters will use them in their favour:

    Place blocks tomake yourself a platform safe from the spikes, then make it yours, place doors and block theirs.
    Trapblocks.png


    I see few builders using enemy trapblocks. This is a trick I use a lot too:

    Place a ladder to enter a trap, and you might find a surprising room for a forward teleporter, or the beginning of a tunnel.

    Dead traps.png

    Heh, in the end, it's all about teleporters.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2014
    giggiggiggiggig, Ej and Apronymous like this.
  8. Apronymous

    Apronymous Shark Slayer

    Messages:
    326
    So... a couple major points to be made here on your block choices.
    This goes off on a few tangents, but I think it's all worth knowing.

    Trap Blocks
    Trap blocks have a lot in common with wood blocks. They have a very niche use and it's hard to justify their resource cost. They also tend to get way over used by anyone who happens to have found a situation to use them. And unless something has changed since I last checked (admittedly I haven't checked in a very long time), another trait they share with wood is that both teams can wall kick off of them! Gee, makes you wonder if they even do what they're supposed to do in this building. And why do you have the team-side wall of trap blocks? I get that it's supposed to protect your team from the spikes while enemies are nearby, but if the spikes are open the trap blocks probably are too. Even if you only put a trap block every other space it wouldn't be worth the 100 stone sink, let alone the 175 you used here. To me, there are only four justifications for a trap block:
    • Building a team specific bridge over dirt backwalling (only uses one block every 4 or 5 spaces)
    • Building a team only way up a wall (only when the wall faces towards nothing *cough*enemywalljumpers*cough*)
    • Having team-safe wood spikes (more on this later)
    • Something, something, saw traps.
    Also, as 8x (and many other people, countless times elsewhere) said, if you aren't careful while spamming trap blocks you're just buying the enemy team blast proof doors.
    There are only two real places for a saw trap, right in front of a tower and under a teleporter.
    I'm of the opinion that anyone who gets caught in the former wasn't worth killing, so I don't bother building there. I don't have anything against people who put saw traps there, but I do think less of people who use three trap blocks on saw traps under tunnels. Outside of your base you use three blocks to protect it from bombs and add a (slight) level of surprise to the trap. It also prevents enemy builders from wedging blocks into the empty gaps. Under a tunnel you already have the element of surprise and enemies won't be reacting fast enough to bomb it, so those reasons are out... and (smart) enemy builders are going to exit the tunnels carrying ladders, not blocks. Even if they do wedge a block in the way, once you retake the base removing it will take less effort than getting 25 stone would have so... yeah.

    Also, I have fantasies of ramming forks through the eyes of people who steal their tree-farm's saw. If I'm at the tree-farm it means I don't have any wood (can't rebuild the saw) and that means I probably don't have any stone (once again, can't rebuild the saw). In the time it takes for me to get all those mats I'll have probably missed an opportunity to throw down a tower farther up, and I might have missed an opportunity to prevent my tower from collapsing. If you want to make a saw trap, build your own fucking saw! But I severely digress.
    Spikes
    Are bad and should almost never be used.

    You use more spike than actually necessary here, and even if the enemy got stuck (which this building can't do) they're free to dodge the spikes. If an enemy isn't trapped in a tight spike pit, they aren't going to get hit by stone rooted spikes unless they aren't worth the effort of hitting, and even then a spike pit will rarely catch someone important. Meanwhile wood rooted spikes aren't team-safe unless you use trap blocks, which jacks the price up to obnoxious levels. Though if you're using the trap block for something else these are occasionally worth building (ex; a trap block is acting as a pseudo-ladder in the front of a tower, and a spike directly below the trap block will hit people who try to chase your team-mate (buying them time to escape)). Also spike drops are sort of like traps and actually work.

    Ladders
    Should always be placed normal to the surface you've stuck them on.
    Always.

    And if all they're doing is allowing you to move upward, two backwallings and a block to kick off of are a faster way up.


    By the time this sort of trap gets scaled down to the point it's economical it's not even the same trap!
    It also adds a significant mine weakness and makes it much harder to deal with kegs.
    Disclaimer: I'm not asking for a critique on this building, I'm just using it to demo the trap I'm talking about.
    On an interesting side note, this tower costs less than just the trap blocks in the OP.
    why.png

    tl;dr Eww... traps? Just don't. and #laern2lader
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2014
    Klokinator and Gurin like this.
  9. Well you certainly spent a long time on this. Just one thing that doesn;t answer everything you posted, the spikes aren't for killing, it's simpling to keep them out.
     
  10. Apronymous

    Apronymous Shark Slayer

    Messages:
    326
    Last time I checked that's what walls were for.
     
    Dargona1018 likes this.
  11. I put spikes there so they wouldn't try to climb it.... and if you read the original post,, you can remove the spikes.
     
  12. This trap looks like a waste of time and resources. The enemy can just jump back out. I also don't understand why there are trap blocks stacked on top of each other. Then enemy wont get stuck in them, you will.
     
    RampageX likes this.
  13. Like I said earlier, the point of this is NOT to trap the enemy. It's meant for the front/bottom part of a structure.
     
  14. It still is a waste of stone.
     
    RampageX likes this.
  15. Actually read the original post please.
     
  16. instead of trap blocks try platforms
     
    RampageX likes this.
  17. are you for real, OP?

    if your structure isn't simple, expandable and cheap, it's pretty much useless
     
  18. Hold on, I'm making a better version. I've taken in the criticism, making a more useful version.
     
  19. Many flaws

    3 bombs or 1 keg or 2 mines and it's sunken
    Back wall is good to place but over expensive and easily manipulated
     
  20. Dargona1018

    Dargona1018 Ballista Bolt Thrower

    Messages:
    569
    I tested the design that I posted above (forgot a screenshot before blowing it to oblivion):
    And added a small archer nest, had alternating spikes, and had a stone-platform-stone wall instead of the one-thick stone wall in the back, and it works! Until someone brings a keg, or a couple bombs (with skills), but in a public match, it does fine, I would imagine

    Note: I made it in Sandbox, so I am unsure of the time it took or the supplies.