[203] Knight Discussion

Changes build 200-203:

Please discuss the implications of this build for the knight.
I will update the Class Overview aswell with information from this thread.

If you got something interesting enough to be worth its own thread, do not forget to put the current build number in front of the thread name. Thank you.

 

First I liked it, but now I've pretty much changed my mind.

The only effective way to kill is now: Charge. Retreat. Charge. And keep repeating.
Or lob a bomb behind your opponent's back.

I often get frustrated with the stun-thingy from jabs, I don't know exactly how it works, but it happens.
Someone jabs you > You get knocked back > You get stunned while knocking back > Enemy comes at you > Lands another jab > So on.
I would suggest that when you get jabbed, nothing happens to you other than losing a heart. I think you should be able to move and shield, but not jab for a second. I think this was partly implemented during the test build, but I dunno if it works / is still there. Also, I don't like the clash at all. It's very buggy / laggy, and it takes away some meaning of skill from knights, as newbies can just keep on jabbing and there will be no damage. Shield is there for a reason :(
Maybe the clash could only apply in slash vs slash? I would see that much more reasonable, as there are really no counters to slash atm other than retreating. Which makes the -Slash-Retreat-Slash even more viable.

Also there are a lot of random glitches, such as:
-Teleporting everywhere, anytime (a bit of a lag issue, but not entirely)
-Mad collision pinball bug sometimes from slash, you go WROOOM
-Seeing other players as dead bodies, but they are still living and able to damage you
-Being invicible from any sword hits in certain positions (This has been there for ages already)
-1HKO jabs
-1HKO bashes (mostly from minor heights, falling from a greater height usually only harms)
-The falling sprite playing, and not being able to move from the spawn
-Walking on spikes does damage (applies to all classes)

I can live with this, but I will sure keep on complaining.

(Hoorah!)

 

I have had a LOT of jabs against me tonight that outright kill me from a full 3 hearts in one hit. I too feel that jabs are basically pointless/useless now against other knights.

 

@Monsteri:
There should be no stun from jabs:

The real stun was taken out a while builds back... So what you are experiencing is very weird indeed and I suggest someone making a video about this, as there seems to be a lot of unclarity about it. If no one does it I will try it out later.

That is the semi stun that was removed. It didn't really work very well, but that might have been because of the fact that parrying (clashing) was implemented along with it, changing combat mechanics.

There still is a reason to use the shield, clashing doesnt guarantee a 100% block chance, its more or less random (whoever has randomly the right timing to hit while the other one is in "cooldown" after a jab.

How so? Jabing someone will result in him loosing most of his charge, so you can break charges with jabs. The enemy being able to get distance and then charge up and let you dash into the slash has always been a viable tactic, no?

Maybe you should post in the suggestion forum if you feel strongly about it.
What I noticed is this:
Combat that only contain of jabs is completely random, like I implied above, the guy who is randomly getting the timing right will normally win those fights. I don't let myself get wrapped up in this except if I have superior health and the enemy is nearly dead. But really its random and there is no saying in who could win. I had situations where we both stabbed and he stabbed me to death with 3 hits before I could hit him once. My advice DON'T get into stab fights like that. Its bad and even a beginner can kill luckily.

That is why better players go for the Retreat-Slash Monsteri mentioned, that is more skillfull and through timing you can get more guaranteed hits without getting hit back.

When I see people charge up with Retreat-Slash I try to anticipate if I can get a stab in before he has charged up (distance wise), try a shield bash if I am feeling lucky or charge up a counter slash, letting him slash into empty space (and moving closer) and me ripping him to shreds immediately afterwards.

This are just a few of my observations in current combat.

 

Shield bash into jab can work sometimes but I feel that most of the time I find myself retreating to high ground and then slashing. With how fast it happens there isn't any reliable counter to it.

Jabbing is made especially unattractive by how random clashing makes it.

 

It's always been intended that a knight can help up another knight with his shield.

 

Hence why MM made them start acting like ladders.

 

CLASH. MUST. go.

 

I tried to have fun with knight combat but my fun got parried.

 

Clashing really must be removed. The knight combat is horrible now.