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[265] Zan's Compilation Tower

Discussion in 'Building Critiques' started by Zanman777, Jan 13, 2012.

  1. Zanman777

    Zanman777 Shopkeep Stealer

    Messages:
    51
    I have designed a new tower that incorporates several of my favorite concepts I've seen here at the forum, on the pubs and discovered by myself. It has two possible versions, that only differ on the way they deal with the threat enemy archers climbing the trees and jumping over the tower:
    Screen 10.1.png Screen 10.2.3.png

    The common section of the tower costs:
    Stone:312
    Wood: 300

    This tower can make use of two landscape aspects:
    - Trees next to the entrance to provide extra difficulty for the enemy to build a ladder to climb over
    - bedrock underneath the tower base to make it a real pain in the neck to dig under it

    It's fairly difficult to find a spot with both these landscape advantages at the sime time. You can choose one of them that suits your tactics best or that you find incidentally on the map. In this example, I found a spot with both advantages; it's merely illustrative, though. You're unlikely to be that lucky in a real game situation.

    The trapbridge that links the trees to the tower wall shall be as long as needed to fill the gap between the tower and the trees. It has the purpose of preventing enemy builders from building a ladder between the trees and the tower.

    Finally, the Avacado spike on the outer door is a sweet candy for enemy knights that decide they want to break in. :) When the enemy is near the trapbridge, the spikes reorient horizontally and stick to the door. Notice the rock roof over the spikes: this should prevent ally units from falling/jumping on the spikes.

    Okay, on to the building process.

    Here's the virgin landscape.
    Start.png



    Make sure you start building the tower with at least 90 stone and 40 wood. It's the bare minimmum to build the wall that will stop enemies and to build the teamside bridges to climb the wall.
    Start building a wall 8 tiles high.
    Screen 1.png



    Then build the castle wall block that makes the floor for the outer door; add the castle blackwall that will accomodate the trapbridge and the spikes.
    Screen 2.png



    Add the trapbridge + spikes themselves; build the doors.
    Screen 3.png



    It's time to build the door roof now.
    Screen 4.png


    Start laying the second wall layer.
    Screen 5.png
    Screen 6.png


    Nice. Now, let's build that bigger trap. Lay the two stone rocks that will be the outer end of the bridge. (In this case, you could ommit those tiles; but on 100% flat terrain they would be needed. For illustrative purposes, I built them.)
    Screen 6.png


    Set up the bridge and the spikes.
    Screen 7.png




    Continued...
     
  2. Zanman777

    Zanman777 Shopkeep Stealer

    Messages:
    51
    Now lay down the backwall reinforcement behind the tower. As you lay down the backwall, build the bridges you need to get access back up the tower. Don't build the bridges first! If you do so you can't build the backwall on the bridge tile.
    Screen 8.png
    Screen 9.png
    Screen 10.png



    Alright. The tower is built. The only thing you have to tweak now is the weakness it presents: enemy archers can climb those trees and jump over the tower. The solution you choose now will be the responsible for the tower version you end up with.
    A) You can build a wall that prevents the archers from reaching the tower top.
    Screen 10.1.png



    B) You can cut down the trees (not completely! Leave part of the tree to make it impossible to build ladder on the tree's place), and lay objects to prevent the trees from growing past a certain height.
    Screen 10.2.1.png
    Screen 10.2.2.png
    Screen 10.2.3.png

    Touché! Tower built.

    What do you think, guys?
     
  3. BlueLuigi

    BlueLuigi :^) Forum Moderator Donator Tester

    Messages:
    3,620
    Seems okay, but a few things I've noticed:
    1)It relies on bedrock for that spike it, also that's a small spike it, sure it's great if the bedrock is there, otherwise a bit annoying.
    2)Overall it seems a bit flimsy and lacking in actual 'features', there are some things you did that are good, but it seems very basic, and in being basic you should just work with something that has more potential instead of something with already premade extensions if you will.
     
    Noburu likes this.
  4. Kouji

    Kouji Cold, Uncaring, Sadistic, Evil and Cruel Meanie Administrator Global Moderator Forum Moderator Tester
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    An issue I have is with the order you built it. I'd build part of it 2 blocks thick first instead and then build up, since one bomb will take that entire tower down if it's only on wall thick. I really doubt that unless your team is really great at defending the front and don't let anyone through, a knight will bomb or a builder will break a stone block and knock it down.

    When it's actually built, it still comes off as a little weak to me as well, and that bomb jumper can get over it without a problem.

    I could easily get over this over this as an archer still. All I'd have to do is get on top of one of trees, shoot a couple of arrows on the wall opposite of me and then jump on the arrows. The second version where you cut the trees down is better at blocking, but you'd have to continue it to the trees further to the right since archers can climb those and jump on the stone blocks. The issue with blocking the trees with stone blocks is that you are going to break those trees since they'll be stunted and won't grow. This will mean less wood on the map, and for longer games, that will be a huge problems.
     
  5. chrabeusz

    chrabeusz Bison Rider

    Messages:
    19
    arrowclimbing-proof: no
    bombjump-proof: no
    archer nest: no
    catapult nest: no
    bomb-proof overhang: no

    stacked doors: yes
    extremly unconfortable entry for allies: yes

    try again
     
    Contrary likes this.
  6. Zanman777

    Zanman777 Shopkeep Stealer

    Messages:
    51
    What do you mean? What features are you looking for?
     
  7. goodyman8

    goodyman8 Bison Rider

    Messages:
    1,025
    I think he means that you are lacking features that increase the defense and give you the ability to repel attackers.(archers nest,catapult nest,tall enough to stop bomb jumpers.)
    And with the second he means that because this is on bedrock,it cant be built freely everywhere and that you should probably work on something that IS usable everywhere.
     
  8. Zanman777

    Zanman777 Shopkeep Stealer

    Messages:
    51
    Graphic.PNG

    Something like this?

    The bottom archer nest has two bridge tiles to allow the archer to back off and close the door without falling to a lower level.
    The team ladder on the outer side has backwall behind it: this makes it uncollapsable.

    Pretty much every angle is covered by archer shot.

    There's an additional Avacado spike set inside the tower (my Zanman777 tag is over the spikes, on the bigger screenshot).

    Now you're gonna say it's too costly... You can't have everything... Personally I prefer the first project, it's straightforward without unnecessary bells and whistles. I don't build to show off, I build to help the team...
     
  9. Kouji

    Kouji Cold, Uncaring, Sadistic, Evil and Cruel Meanie Administrator Global Moderator Forum Moderator Tester
    1. MOLEing Over Large Estates - [MOLE]
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    2,910
    This is better, but obviously the cost is much higher, so it'd be something that you can only build at start-up.

    One issue I see is with the bottom archer tower
    ArcherTower.jpg
    As you can see in the first pic, that yellow is the effective firing range. The problem with this is that you are unable to shoot anyone breaking the door.

    Addtionally, it's still difficult to get into the door if you are retreating. Doors that are built over an over hang are pain to get through.
     
  10. Zanman777

    Zanman777 Shopkeep Stealer

    Messages:
    51
    The yellow range is for full power shot only. If you shoot with less than full power, you can lob an arrow in new angles.

    The retreat problem is easy to solve: add a third bridge tile to the second lowest "bridge platform".
     
  11. Kouji

    Kouji Cold, Uncaring, Sadistic, Evil and Cruel Meanie Administrator Global Moderator Forum Moderator Tester
    1. MOLEing Over Large Estates - [MOLE]
    2. REKINS OF SEAS: Super Crew of Ultimate Havoking 2: Return of King of KAG: Chapter 420blazeit - REKIN

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    Even if you lob, that area in front of the door is still protected from shots. Also, lobbed shots aren't going to break a knights shield, so there is no way that any number of archers would be able to deal with the knights in front.

    Either way, that bottom archer nest is limited in it's range for shooting down.
     
  12. Zanman777

    Zanman777 Shopkeep Stealer

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    • Warning:Spam
    Whatever.
     
  13. Kouji

    Kouji Cold, Uncaring, Sadistic, Evil and Cruel Meanie Administrator Global Moderator Forum Moderator Tester
    1. MOLEing Over Large Estates - [MOLE]
    2. REKINS OF SEAS: Super Crew of Ultimate Havoking 2: Return of King of KAG: Chapter 420blazeit - REKIN

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    At this point I'm not saying it's bad, I'm just stating the issues with it. You are free to ignore them, but if you post an idea, people will always tell you it's weakness no matter how great it is. The reason for this is that so it can be improved and new strategies for building are made.
     
    SARGRA13, BlueLuigi and Noburu like this.
  14. TomHup

    TomHup Bison Rider

    Messages:
    115
    First time looking at this stuff, and I gotta say, this does not look very sturdy. If the enemy gets close enough to the bottom, and if they have enough bombs, those towers are poo.