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[947] Effective Building and Layers Technique

Discussion in 'Builder' started by Chromabird, Nov 22, 2013.

  1. Chromabird

    Chromabird Shark Slayer

    Messages:
    16
    A long time ago, somewhere in a land of knights in shining armour and burning peasants... People used too, too much resources. Today, in this thread we are gonna talk about not really important thing in Beta (yea, still callin it like this) such as building. Let's get started.

    I. Introduction and bad building mechanics in Beta
    Walls, castles and stuff like that are very weak thing in Beta, unless you build a 10-block thickness castle. Any of your structures will just give some time for your teammates to get into fight if they got killed and prepare for the next battle. You can just build any stuff you want and hang around and teammates will win the game for you.

    Bad news if you're on a losing side. I mean, there can be only two teams - winning and losing. Yeah, it can be balanced sometimes, but after a while balance will collapse. So, what can you do being a builder when enemies invade your territory? You can only try to repair the holes. Protecting a hall/flag is up to knights and archers. Holes? Yeah. The most OP thing (IMO) in Beta is bomb arrows and a bit kegs. You see an archer firing those bomb stuff - your "castle" gonna be fuc... I mean, crashed hard... You can't do anything with this, just try to seal those holes. Damn massive holes. Or your construction you've been building for 30 minutes will fall apart in 10 seconds.

    So whether it's a keg or a bomb arrow, it doesn't matter your castle is stone one or your castle is wooden one.

    II. Main Part
    Let's see what most people do when they get resources

    [​IMG]

    Are you kidding me? Why do you need to use so much resources, and it's even not 1 resupply, it's 2 or even 3 of them? Let's see what we can do with this

    [​IMG]

    I used about the same amount of stone and did this with using layers technique (as I call it)
    The point of technique is very easy - use :wood_mat:. Don't be afraid of this material.

    Let's go inside my tower (dirt block being wood 25252525)

    :castle_wall::dirt::dirt:
    :castle_wall::dirt::dirt:
    :stone_door::door::stone_door:
    :stone_door::door::door:
    :castle_wall::dirt::dirt:
    :castle_wall::castle_wall::dirt::dirt:
    :castle_wall::castle_wall::dirt::castle_wall:
    :castle_wall::dirt::castle_wall::dirt:
    :castle_wall::castle_wall::dirt::castle_wall::castle_wall:
    :castle_wall::dirt::castle_wall::dirt::castle_wall::dirt:
    :castle_wall::castle_wall::dirt::castle_wall::dirt::castle_wall:
    :castle_wall::castle_wall::castle_wall::dirt::castle_wall::dirt:
    :castle_wall::castle_wall::dirt::castle_wall::dirt::castle_wall:

    I saved up mostly on doors to make the foundation more thick, because enemies very rarely go through doors, they go through the castle instead :smug:. I think you got the idea of how it works. I will just show some types of layers

    :castle_wall::dirt::castle_wall:
    :castle_wall::dirt::castle_wall:
    :castle_wall::dirt::castle_wall:
    :castle_wall::dirt::castle_wall:
    :castle_wall::dirt::castle_wall:
    :castle_wall::dirt::castle_wall:
    :castle_wall::dirt::castle_wall:
    :castle_wall::dirt::castle_wall:

    :castle_wall::dirt::castle_wall:
    :dirt::castle_wall::dirt:
    :castle_wall::dirt::castle_wall:

    Use wood man!
    If you have some suggestions to make my thread better just post it ::):. Sorry for my poor english and thanks for reading all of this :up:

    Useful stuff:
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2013
    Food, Guitarman, Klokinator and 4 others like this.
  2. Bernhardt

    Bernhardt Builder Stabber

    Messages:
    54
    Thank you for bringing up an important topic!

    I'm a fan of layered building. My only concern has been the strength of layered structures. It feels like wood isn't just weak against slashes, but it is especially weak against explosions. This results in missing blocks between layers.

    Have you found an ideal cost/strength layer design or has your philosophy simply been: "why build expensive when it's going to be destroyed in a minute anyway".
     
    Chromabird likes this.
  3. Duplolas

    Duplolas So Sad

    Messages:
    917
    Nice post. I typically build with a wood filling rather than doing an alternating build. Its quicker to build, even though a fire arrow can burn down the middle.
     
    Chromabird likes this.
  4. Chromabird

    Chromabird Shark Slayer

    Messages:
    16
    Duplolas, thanks.

    Bernhardt, don't really think there's any ideal one. I like doing first vertical layer of stone and then spam around with wood/stone on the foundation to make it more thick. And if you're talking about castle around hall:
    :castle_wall::dirt::dirt:
    :castle_wall::dirt::castle_wall:
    :castle_wall::dirt::dirt:
    :stone_door::castle_bg::castle_bg:
    :door::door::castle_bg:
    :castle_wall::castle_wall::dirt:
    :castle_wall::castle_wall::dirt:
    :castle_wall::dirt::dirt:
    :castle_wall::dirt::castle_wall:
    :castle_wall::castle_wall::dirt:
    :castle_wall::castle_wall::dirt:
    :castle_wall::dirt::dirt_bg:
    :castle_wall::dirt::castle_wall:
    :castle_wall::castle_wall::castle_wall:
    :stone_door::door::stone_door: :door::door::stone_door:
    :stone_door::door::door::castle::stone_door::door::stone_door:
    (only built one side, the other side is the same and roof is likethat too)
    I also like this type


    I'm reinforcing first 2 low layers with stone so bombs or fire arrows will not affect my wall. Any of your structures is weak in-game unless kegs and at least bomb arrows will be nerfed.
     
  5. BlueLuigi

    BlueLuigi :^) Forum Moderator Donator Tester

    Messages:
    3,620
    Great idea, don't see it used often, but the layering is great as a buffer if you have plenty of wood. The only downside with the whole inside wall being wood part is if a bomb arrow brings into it, a fire arrow dissolves it. But properly checkered or otherwise like all your other examples, it's great.
     
    hierbo, FuzzyBlueBaron and Chromabird like this.
  6. Klokinator

    Klokinator Such Beta
    1. Aphelion's Roleplay

    Messages:
    1,443
    I was actually covering this in my builder guide (That humongous one I've mentioned a few times) but I had some other tips too so I'll still include it. Great guide though, too few people do this.
     
    Chromabird likes this.
  7. cameron

    cameron THD Team THD Team Tester
    1. Practitioners of War Extreme Revolution - POWER

    Messages:
    77
    Ive also been using wood with stone structures to make them much thicker at very little cost. I also prefer to use larger chunks of wood, simply because its much quicker to build. I was thinking of making a in depth building with wood guide, and i might still do, i rarely see anyone else mix up things with wood when im playing.
     
    Chromabird likes this.
  8. Chromabird

    Chromabird Shark Slayer

    Messages:
    16
    I will try this one ::D:.

    Anyone wanna cover the explosives? Like making a guide how kegs affect castles and their range
     
  9. Bernhardt

    Bernhardt Builder Stabber

    Messages:
    54
    Hey, by the way, talking about layered building, do consider including layered back walls in the guide too.

    Many times it's the back wall that keeps the structure together. I'm a fan of building big back walls when I have the chance, because quite frankly, an Archer with a couple of bomb arrows will bring a wall of any width down in a matter of seconds otherwise.
     
  10. FuzzyBlueBaron

    FuzzyBlueBaron Warm, Caring, Benign, Good and Kind Philanthrope Global Moderator Forum Moderator Donator Tester
    1. The Young Blood Collective - [YB]

    Messages:
    2,508
    Also, fyi, if you have a large supply of wood then throwing in a layer of bridges every now and then is particularly good for durability seeing as they have more health than, are harder to set on fire than*, and are more resistant to explosions than wooden blocks.

    *Particularly if they have stone backwall behind them.
     
    hierbo, Contrary and Sponncx like this.
  11. Gurin

    Gurin Stop That! Global Moderator Donator Tester

    Messages:
    358
    Just do this around things:

    :castle_bg::castle_bg::castle_bg::castle_bg::castle_bg::castle_bg::castle_bg:
    :castle_bg::dirt_bg::dirt_bg::dirt_bg::dirt_bg::dirt_bg::castle_bg:
    :castle_bg::dirt_bg::dirt_bg::dirt_bg::dirt_bg::dirt_bg::castle_bg:
    :castle_bg::dirt_bg::dirt_bg::dirt_bg::dirt_bg::dirt_bg::castle_bg:
    :castle_bg::castle_bg::castle_bg::castle_bg::castle_bg::castle_bg::castle_bg:
    The dirt is wooden backwall.

    I've seen this built by BC, it's very useful as the wooden backwall inside wont get burnt if a fire arrow is shot beneath it.
    Being building in small spaces, or put through a long corridor, it's great!
     
  12. cswiii

    cswiii Catapult Fodder

    Messages:
    1
    I'm something of a n00b to KAG2D, and/but it occurred to me very quickly that alternating wood/stone might be a lot better than pure stone, but I hadn't seen anyone doing it in the games I've played, so I wasn't sure. I actually started doing it today, fearing that someone might wonder what in the world I was doing to their build:eek:. Then I saw this post.

    But it seemed to work pretty well. When you have walls six+ layers deep that are alternating wood/stone (with perhaps the occasional line of pure stone for reinforcement), it seems somewhat difficult to penetrate. Your stone goes further and your wood is somewhat protected from its worst enemy, fire.
     
  13. 8x

    8x Elimination Et Choix Traduisant la Realité Forum Moderator Tester Official Server Admin
    1. The Young Blood Collective - [YB]

    Messages:
    1,316
    While this building expamples look well designed and they're effective, sometimes online you can't manage to make them properly, due to a lack of resources or time to follow some basic guidelines correctly.
    The core of this, in my opinion. is to stop fire, and to build something appropiated no matter how much resources you count with. As you have surely seen 1 stone block and 1 stone door can stop a whole team if placed properly, and that's 60 stone, or 1 stone block and 2 stone backwall can save the 80% of a front tower from getting burned.

    There's something new and fresh of building in the current Beta that I like (anmd sometimes i hate too): you don't only build defenses and walls, you know they will fall or get destroyed, so you build with a destroy/rebuild planning in mind. You think: this tower is bound to get on fire, so I'm already making them to shoot fire arrows here.
    It's not only making defenses for stopping things at the very present, but also for how things will be after 5-10 minutes or a couple of strong attacks. You decide what things they're going to destroy first.

    That's why, i think, making layers is a good technique, but not only using with different materials. Layers meaning a specific schedule of destruction/repairing to stop the enemies as effectively as possible.
     
  14. Chromabird

    Chromabird Shark Slayer

    Messages:
    16
    Thanks for discussing this thread. I will edit my post and stick some useful quotes up there.
     
  15. Naeght

    Naeght Shark Slayer

    Messages:
    3
    The key to building with wood is thinking like an archer
    Does the tower you built make you salivate at the thought of hitting it with a fire arrow? If yes, you should split the wood segments with a stone block, atleast till it doesn't drive an archer's imagination wild.
     
    PeggleFrank likes this.