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Bring back the glory of boats.

Discussion in 'Suggestions & Ideas' started by makmoud98, Sep 30, 2015.

?

What do you think

Poll closed Oct 14, 2015.
  1. Good idea

    46.2%
  2. Bad idea

    10.3%
  3. Its not bad

    43.6%
Mods: Rainbows
  1. makmoud98

    makmoud98 You are already DEAD Forum Moderator Staff Alumni Tester

    Messages:
    586
    Basically, my idea is that we bring back the inability to swim in water for a few maps to give boats more of a purpose. I feel that this can make a more interesting CTF/TTH and give boats more of a purpose than just to be an easy target. I really miss those intense boat fights. My idea is not completely thought out, so please, point out the flaws.
     
    icemusher, Snake19, DatNobby and 10 others like this.
  2. dayleaf

    dayleaf Ballista Bolt Thrower
    1. The Thieves Guild

    Messages:
    255
    I would just reduce swimming speed and be unable to attack under water, those old boat battles need to return!
     
    icemusher, Vamist, Redshadow6 and 5 others like this.
  3. Xuorox

    Xuorox Builder Stabber

    Messages:
    9
    I really like the idea of having to have boats to progress in a water map. As makmoud said, it would only be in some maps.
     
  4. Egholm

    Egholm Shipwright

    Messages:
    31
    Hmm... Perhaps reduce swimspeed and make an exhaustion thingy making you incapable of swimming great distances. So now you can only swim 10 blocks for example, and then slowly descent forcing you to drown.
    It's a tough one and will definitely need more discussion! ::D::thumbs_up:
     
    PUNK123 and makmoud98 like this.
  5. Hospitalizer

    Hospitalizer Shopkeep Stealer

    Messages:
    57
    Excellent idea, would even take it a step further make knights exiting water slowed for a min or 2
    . Never understood how a knight in 60+ pounds of plate and 30 + pounds of qwilted wool padding could just swim around with no problems. Would make water a vary useful strategic choke point, add a bit of realism.
     
  6. Sir_Walter

    Sir_Walter Ballista Bolt Thrower Staff Alumni Tester

    Messages:
    273
    This is actually an interesting alternative to removing water, but it s0unds frustrating. Maybe someone can mod it and try it out on a server for a little while.
     
    _Cuffs_ and Obione5256 like this.
  7. Superblackcat

    Superblackcat baideist baide Staff Alumni Tester

    Messages:
    462
    Make lakes smaller then implement plss. Also boats are weird.
     
  8. The issue in making water a choke where boats are required is that it's effectively a no man's land that can spread outwards. We had something not unlike this in premium Classic servers, where you couldn't fight in water and drowned pretty quickly (especially knights, who falling in was more or less a death sentence), but with no boats. It led to tremendous stalemates as builders would struggle to get a bridge up long enough to approach the enemy base, only for it to be taken out by a single swing of the catapult.
     
    _Cuffs_ likes this.
  9. _Cuffs_

    _Cuffs_ Ballista Bolt Thrower Staff Alumni Tester

    Messages:
    102
    I like the idea but we need maps built around this, the current water based maps won't do. Also, the water should be completely back walled by dirt so that builders can build bridges without having to swim down to make supports. This would allow for early game pushes instead of both teams waiting for boats or teams waiting on builders who have to make supports for there bridges.
     
    Dargona1018, mcrifel and makmoud98 like this.
  10. PeggleFrank

    PeggleFrank Base Burner

    Messages:
    125
    We would need to balance things a bit better first, cost-wise.

    A warboat costs 250 coins. To add a ballista on top of that, you need 150 coins, for 400 coins in total. All of that can be sunk with a few bomb bolts from the enemy team, and even captured. Longboats are cheaper, faster, and more practical. Dinghies are useful in some cases but you need to have knights on them to shield the rowers from arrows. Warboats are horribly inefficient for their price.

    That's three types of boats right there. That could be enough, but warboats rarely see use (even on water maps), and dinghies pale in comparison to longboats, which are also fast enough to ram structures and carve caves out of the enemy walls. We need to give warboats a massive edge over the other boats to compensate for their size and speed, and we need to make each boat good in one specific situation. In most cases, for example, you could swap out a dinghy with a longboat and you'd be in a much better position. Dinghies by themselves have no advantage over longboats other than cost.
     
    makmoud98 likes this.
  11. Trumbles

    Trumbles Base Burner

    Messages:
    449
    Mmm.. certain maps could have wavy water (?), these maps would make it very difficult to swim. Only boats would be able to function properly to move across water. Inability to swim would be crappy, but inability to stay floating would be nice.

    Would be nice to have mechanics for using stuff like crates and logs as floatation devices. Gotta have lots of water travel options for a map with rough water.
     
    PeggleFrank likes this.
  12. _Cuffs_

    _Cuffs_ Ballista Bolt Thrower Staff Alumni Tester

    Messages:
    102
    Also I think it would benefit the game if boats of the same color/team would pass through eachother, this would make the 2D boat combat more fluid.
     
    PeggleFrank likes this.
  13. Blue_Tiger

    Blue_Tiger Bison Rider Tester

    Messages:
    899
    I don't want this. IMO, water combat is in a good place and a lot of fun. Sure, there are shitty stalemate water maps in CTF, but those are the maps fault. If I made a map with a bedrock wall in the middle separating the two teams, there'd be a stalemate, too.

    Boats, like siege weapons, are just annoying gimmicks in my eyes and I really don't understand why people want these things in the game :/.
     
    Klokinator and Fuzzle like this.
  14. makmoud98

    makmoud98 You are already DEAD Forum Moderator Staff Alumni Tester

    Messages:
    586
    Ill work on some kind of prototype for this idea. Although, I'm not sure how to go about nerfing swimming. Here are a few ways I could go about doing it:
    • 1. you can swim, but the little bubbles begin to deplete. once out of bubbles, your health will being to deplete as well. similar to drowning.
    • 2. you can swim, but after a few seconds, you begin to sink and drown(similar to the vanilla drowning)
    • 3. you sink nearly instantly after entering the water, but you can hold your breath longer. after out of breath, you being to drown(similar to the vanilla downing)
    • 4. you drown right when you get in the water, but you never sink.
    which solution do you think is the best, do you guys have any other ideas?
    also, im thinking that ladders will no longer decay in the water(or last much longer in the water) for the mod so that if someone is sinking, they can jump get onto a ladder and maybe live.

    Also, boat shop prices can be adjusted and maybe we can even add the raft to the boat shop.
    _____________________________
    Definitely.
    Yea, you're right lemme know wat sounds like the best idea for you
    ehh idk about this one, but its not a terrible idea.
    Yea i can see catapult and ballistas kind of ruining the water fights. >>creates cata on top of big tower >>snipes warboats before they can even get to shore. something will need to be implements to stop this.
    for sure, I think its the most important thing
    yea, like I told reudh, something will need to be done about seige costs. and with boat cost.
    I'm not sure what you mean by wavy water, but water in KAG is hard-coded so I think we are out of luck. At the same time, I'm not sure if it will be good.
    ehh idea maybe, thats an interesting idea. I am a little afraid that it would discourage teamwork on a warboat.
    At this point maybe it should just be a completly different variant of CTF. idk. Like I said tho, different maps only.
    ________________________________________
    Once I start working on it, I will get a better idea of how all these ideas and opinions could be taken into consideration for the mod. Thanks for the feedback.
     
    DatNobby and _Cuffs_ like this.
  15. Trumbles

    Trumbles Base Burner

    Messages:
    449
    Give swimming more gravity, make it harder to stay up in the wavy water. You can only jump so often in water if it is rough.

    This is the most intuitive to me, as people aren't taking damage for no reason and it's easy to understand.

    The water does have to look visually different, which may be the most difficult part. It needs to be an intuitive design or people will not understand and will be upset about it.
     
  16. makmoud98

    makmoud98 You are already DEAD Forum Moderator Staff Alumni Tester

    Messages:
    586
    You can change the texture of water, but not dynamically. Anything else is impossible.
     
  17. Trumbles

    Trumbles Base Burner

    Messages:
    449
    Hmm.. that certainly is strange. It just needs to look different somehow to indicate the change in mechanics.
     
  18. _Cuffs_

    _Cuffs_ Ballista Bolt Thrower Staff Alumni Tester

    Messages:
    102
    Boats of the same team passing through eachother seem like a pretty important feature imo. For example, your team has a Warboat in the middle of a body of water everyone on that boat dies and the enemy team begins to cap it. Now in order for your team to win back their boat they purchase a longboat and successfully repel the attack on their warboat. With this feature the longboat could continue forward while the warboat remains in a safer location allowing for it to avoid enemy siege/bombs without keeping your team from advancing.
     
  19. RampageX

    RampageX Bison Rider Staff Alumni Tester

    Messages:
    195
    Boats should do damage when you throw them from a high tower, @Fellere825 would agree with me.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2015
  20. makmoud98

    makmoud98 You are already DEAD Forum Moderator Staff Alumni Tester

    Messages:
    586
    lol that used to be a thing, but it was removed because OP
     
Mods: Rainbows