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Community thoughts on current knight combat?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by TheDirtySwine, Jan 2, 2015.

  1. TheDirtySwine

    TheDirtySwine Bison Rider Staff Alumni Donator

    Hello community,

    I have spent a lot of time learning how to time my slashes so that I would be able to be an indestructible weapon on the battlefield. Before the more recent updates (when jabs didn't cancel slashes) I could make it into enemy bases and pubstomp. Ever since they added the changes which allows jabs can now cancel slashes, it is very difficult for me to maintain my streaks. I know this isn't a one man army game; it requires team work, but you all have to admit that there are some players that end up carrying the team no matter what. I think that jabs should either: no longer cancel slashes or allow them to cancel slashes, but only do half a heart. It occurs far too often that a group of new players swarm me and jab me instantly to a point where I can do nothing (not even shield). A group of new players would usually take a few slashes to take out, but because they can perma-jab cancel me, I can't do anything. There is zero counter play, the only choice is to run, and even then, running might not even be an option. I hope we can find a compromise as a community, so that this doesn't make the game MLG pro knights only and not a noob 720 jabscope game either.

    What are your thoughts? Am I the only one experiencing this?

    Or is it just that I need to get gud? ;)
    zerd likes this.
  2. kodysch

    kodysch Ballista Bolt Thrower Staff Alumni
    1. Archers [Arch] (Recruiting)

    As the "indestructible weapon" you strive to be I feel like you're being a little dramatic when you say,
    The slash has superior range to the jab and anyone that is half way decent at knight can deal with a jab spammer, by shielding getting some range then slashing. That being said I too feel the frustration of jab spamming and think something should be done about it. Jabs stunning is a good thing, and should be kept. The half heart Idea is interesting and i'd like to see it tested in some games to see how balanced it feels, I only worry about the impact on archer/knight combat half-heart jabs would have.
    Blue_Tiger and J-man2003 like this.
  3. kedram

    kedram Drill Rusher Tester

    Well, if your good enough at slashing you can defeat almost any jabber no matter how good they are. If the terrain allows you can avoid people until you know you have them. To be honest I feel the changes made to KAG in terms of knight combat were very good. At first it was a dropkick to the groin because we all had been used to the extra range and useless jabs. Slashing was the meta and nothing could beat it in knight combat unless of course someone was at 1 heart. It is a good thing that the game has become more dependent on teamwork and often lone wolfing can lead your team to lose. At this point the only thing I could ask for is a drastic nerf to knights water bombs and a slight price increase to archers water arrows. Once that happens I feel the game will truly be fair and more based around combat instead of who buys the most water ammo ::(:
  4. TheDirtySwine

    TheDirtySwine Bison Rider Staff Alumni Donator

    My main concern is not of single jab spammers. Timing is key when facing a single jab spammer; however, a group of jab spammers makes it literally impossible to back off and slash through multiple people at once. Countless times have my streaks been ruined because I will be in my slash animation when all of a sudden someone randomly jabs me and before I know it I'm perma stunned and can't do anything. Jabs should be a last resort when facing enemies, especially at the speed you can jab. Dealing half a heart and keeping the speed would allow players to take out 2 hearts rather fast, but still allow for some counter play. Knight combat should be about timing and skill, not mindless mouse clicking.

    As for water arrows, the biggest counter argument is that archers do not receive money in return for water arrows so it will not get nerfed. I think water arrows are frus trating and perhaps they could find a way to make it take more skill to use... Maybe a direct or indirect hit to the body? If a knight is shielding then the shield deflects the water similarly to how it deflects bombs?
  5. Auburn

    Auburn Prepare Yourself! Forum Moderator Staff Alumni Donator Tester
    1. SharSharShar - [SHARK]

    Except in KAG you really should single other players out. Sounds to me like you're trying to take on too many people at the same time. Honestly, if someone is outnumbered, it makes sense that the enemies can put less effort into attacking, because they have the advantage.
    jimmyzoudcba, Blue_Tiger, 8x and 4 others like this.
  6. Slash the group of jab spammers with your excellent timing?

    Jabs are the only solution to dealing with high flying archers unless you have bombs. I'd like to see them stay the way it is
    J-man2003 likes this.
  7. TheDirtySwine

    TheDirtySwine Bison Rider Staff Alumni Donator

    My problem with this is that it takes zero skill to run towards an enemy and mash your left click button. A group makes this even worse let's not forget. A group of mindless jab spammers pisses me off; however, if I am surrounded by knights that are slashing, at least it takes more time to slash therefore allowing more time to react/ counter play. Earlier today I fought sangfroid and Ominent and got destroyed in some scenarios because of my own mistakes. The difference between slash and jab fighting is that when you lose to a slash fight, you probably lost due to your own poor judgement. You can say the same about Jabbing, but you have to remember that there is so much less counter play.

    Everyone says just back off or shield, and I truly wish it was that easy! Half the time I try to block a jab spammers attacks, they are rarely stunned and even if they do get stunned, they usually have a teammate right beside them continuing to mindlessly jab.

    Just so you all could see where I'm coming from: What if builders could do a full heart of damage per hit of the pick axe? Or what if archers just had to point and click to shoot arrows, they didn't even have to charge. You'd say no freaking way! That's outrageous! That's too easy! Is knight Jabbing not the same thing?
  8. SirDangalang

    SirDangalang Lvl. 128 MissingNo. Donator

    Being outnumbered should be a natural disadvantage to a isolated player and I think makes it irrelevant whether they jab or not since they already have that advantage on you.

    My current perceptions on counteracting large groups of jabspammers alone are in two points.

    - Having any healing items on hand from burgers to hearts on the ground helps weather the storm of jab damage

    - Using the offensive items at a knights disposal in different ways beyond damage to exploit group weaknesses.
    E.g it's amazing how one mine can make a group of knights into a shielding frenzy

    I agree that perhaps the stun period inflicted by blocking a jab could be extended to favour the more strategic minded in pure knight combat.

    But in real and messy KAG combat the ones who use jabspam as a crutch rarely seem to be the MVP's in matches ::):
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2015
    J-man2003 likes this.
  9. ITT: pls let me roflstomp noobs
  10. TheDirtySwine

    TheDirtySwine Bison Rider Staff Alumni Donator

    Perhaps I should've made the main poat more clear. "This game should involve skill not mindless clicking". Everyone already knows theres a hard learning curve, why are knights the only class where a noob can mindlessly click and get away with it. I used to get destroyed in builds where Jabbing to get kills was impossible, so I learned how to slash. We should be teaching people to time their slash's not mindlessly jab. Please try and include more constructive feedback in future posts, because this is a problem that greatly frustrates me
    kodysch likes this.
  11. Verzuvius

    Verzuvius Shark Slayer

    So what about builders? 25252525
    jimmyzoudcba, 8x and J-man2003 like this.
  12. TheDirtySwine

    TheDirtySwine Bison Rider Staff Alumni Donator

    The only time I'd agree with this is if you're referring to wood spamming builders. That is also something that should be looked at
  13. J-man2003

    J-man2003 Arsonist

    Honestly this makes jabbing a whole lot useful, and it makes gameplay more interesting, before no one used jab except the new players who didn't take the tutorial. On the other hand now it makes jabbing useful, so not only can MLG 360 Noscope knights be taken down if done carefully, but gameplay is improved a lot and more interesting.
  14. TheDirtySwine

    TheDirtySwine Bison Rider Staff Alumni Donator

    The idea itself is absolutely wonderful! Jabbing prevents knights from slash surfing; however, the problem is when there are multiple knights. 1v1 combat allows for interesting counterplay 1v3 makes it extremely difficult to fight if they are all jabbing. If they are all Jabbing at different times, you will be perma stunned til death. I think the slash cancelization is a wonderful idea, but maybe they could find a way to get rid of the ridiculous perma stun
  15. Spuds

    Spuds Tree Planter

    Lets face it, jabbing has taken over as the preferred move of knights. This is because jabbing has changed from a mindless panic attack to a sophisticated mans play. Why just today i threw away my brutish longsword and picked up an elegant rapier so when i warp inside a person and then proceed to burst through their chest in a shower of bloody gore the other players will stop and say: "Good show spuds, you simply must come to my hunting lodge this Tuesday and drink scotch with me by the fireplace."
  16. Ricket

    Ricket Shipwright Staff Alumni
    1. Ethereal Legion- ETHER


    Knight combat is fine.
    As with everything in the game, the best players are those who are aware of all of their surroundings, and know how to deal with any situation. So yeah, just don't put yourself in that position.
    Also known as get gooderer
    101i and dual_chiecken like this.
  17. Yagger

    Yagger Kouji's bitch 5eva Staff Alumni Tester
    1. SharSharShar - [SHARK]

    i heard the ultimate git gut strat is to pay geti $200 kiwis for a custom head, which in turn strikes fear into scrub's minds, making them panic when they see you

  18. hugio88

    hugio88 I am the king of KAG! Donator

    I only jabspam when I'm lagging, when you use it while lagging your a real pro.

    I recently had some connection problems for a few days so I was using it. But when I have a good connection I just slash normally! So I hope my internet connection get fixed sooner or later

    Greetings, Your King,

    P.s. I don't mind jabspammers, you could just kill them by slashing them and the right timing, that's all.
  19. Geti

    Geti Please avoid PMing me (poke a mod instead) THD Team Administrator Global Moderator

    Yagger you gotta cut out the whole jew thing dude.

    Re: the topic - we had builds where slash surfing was the only way. Knight combat was one-dimensional.
    To the whole "zero counter play" - shield bash more. You're right, you cant escape the stunlock when more than one knight is pummeling you.
    Don't let it get to that stage.
    FuzzyBlueBaron and TheDirtySwine like this.
  20. wilpin7

    wilpin7 Lewd~ Donator
    1. KAG Competitive League

    Knight combat - find opponent, double slash him, if he's using a shield he'll be stunned, make a quick slash and finish his miserable life. And try not to let him do the same to you, because always remember kids, the first one to hit is the winner, except for very rare cases of extreme luck, or stupidity. Jab should gut gud, but I've never had problems with them since they never shield, so you just gotta slash them to death or run off to the nearest hill so that you can slash-stomp him? If slash-stomping is even the correct word for this.