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Wiki KAG WIKI ("Well, It's Kinda Irrelevant") - A Call For Revival

Discussion in 'Forum, wiki and other THD pages' started by ParaLogia, Jul 15, 2015.

Mods: dnmr, Kazaco97
  1. ParaLogia

    ParaLogia tired Administrator Global Moderator Forum Moderator Tester Official Server Admin

    Messages:
    1,133
    KAG has player retention issues--this has been discussed many times before. New players are pulled in by the promise of various fun mechanics, but instead of being introduced to each by means of a tutorial, they get thrown into the chaos and confusion all at once. A more complete tutorial is planned, but who knows how long that could take? And what can we do in the meantime? :uhh:

    One of the first things that I do when I get a new game is check out the wiki. Now say that I bought KAG yesterday, and I wanted to know why I keep falling into traps built by my teammates. I'd go on the wiki and look up "trap block", only to find that there is no page for trap blocks. Similarly, huge chunks of information are missing/outdated. Rather than satisfying my curiosity, this would increase my frustration. :anger:

    I'm not really here to explain why we should update the wiki. But I'm saying that this is something we can all do ourselves, rather than waiting on the devs to take action. And I say "we", because this will require a concerted effort by multiple people. We need to motivate one another, so that the project doesn't die out in a few days. :gear:

    Paging @rymcd , our resident optimist, for backup. Also tagging people who have expressed interest in contributing over the past week: @Psiklaw @Vampire @Kazaco97 @jimmyzoudcba @ShamWow-SuperRag

    Share your thoughts: any wiki-related discussion can be posted here. In the future, I can create a group to facilitate discussion (on editing and whatnot).

    EDIT: Group is up!
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2015
  2. Lawrence_Shagsworth

    Lawrence_Shagsworth Joke Slayer Official Server Admin

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    I have an interest in this, but do players even use the wiki regularly?
     
  3. rymcd

    rymcd Ballista Bolt Thrower Staff Alumni Tester

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    I love it Para, I'm so glad it's finally starting.
    I'm sure some people will be naturals at this and need little to no guidance.
    Those people might even want to submit directly to the wiki and that's fine.

    For people like me that want to help but are shy on the final touches there's going to be a group that will split up very specific things for every part of KAG.
    I imagine it'll be something like Knight:Bomb jumping, Knight:Slash techniques, Archer:Grapple stomping, Builder:Spike dropping, Builder:Wall concepts, Builder:Shop outlines.
    I'm sure we're going to have a ton and I'll make sure there's a section where you can suggest some more specific threads for it. It won't just be about tips and tricks for a class either, I want ideas on things like teamwork and game modes as well.

    You can submit write ups, pictures, gifs, and videos. It's all helpful for us, even if its half assed. I really hope more and more people jump on this, it's a really easy system. People like Paralogia can clean it all up after and make super bad ass sections on the wiki after. This can seriously help our community if we have a wiki that goes into every last detail of KAG. I think if it's done well enough I can nag the shit out of Geti and Furai to add a direct link from the client!

    One step at a time though, I'm going to see if Para will start on the group now unless he wants me to do it. Either way I'm super excited about this, It's a great chance for us to actually contribute to the success of the game/community.
    --- Double Post Merged, Jul 15, 2015, Original Post Date: Jul 15, 2015 ---
    Not yet and I'm glad they don't, It's honestly outdated and not helpful for learning. New bloods won't learn anything or see how awesome KAG can be once you learn to hold your own. The game isn't advertised as a HARDCORE META GAME that can only be mastered by getting stomped by better people all day for months. Most people don't like that, especially if they have no warning about it before purchasing it.

    If we can beef up this wiki I'm nearly positive I can convince Geti or Furai to get us a direct link on the client. I think if we can get that far we'll see an insane difference with new players staying interested in the game. I could go into a huge rant but I'll just keep answering questions instead. Please feel free to keep asking, I'm really interested in gathering good help for this.
     
    Psiklaw likes this.
  4. Psiklaw

    Psiklaw Ballista Bolt Thrower

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    179
    I agree with rymcd also that direct link sounds like a must for the wiki to be effective. I'm ready to help with anything; I wanted to propose the following idea: each class has a description of their options and actions and then we can do small talk about how to be effective with them, but at the same time we include "XXX's guide to knight", guides by the community to each class.

    I don't know if there is a lot of valid community guides tho. But yeah let's talk about this :)
     
  5. Lawrence_Shagsworth

    Lawrence_Shagsworth Joke Slayer Official Server Admin

    Messages:
    239
    You always ask people who are good at each class what they do in order to have such skill, and compile all responses into one guide possibly? Either that or you can include links to the sources, almost like a bibliography.
     
    Diazepam and Psiklaw like this.
  6. Psiklaw

    Psiklaw Ballista Bolt Thrower

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    179
    Man we could do that thing you say in a funny way, kinda "words of wisdom" with quotes by selected players.

    There is some guides already made like the recent one by oink, and another i cant remember, one also written for this build. I think the best way to focus the wiki is making it oriented to the classic new player, like, in a friendly way and not only telling them "you can tame the shark doing this, you can immobilise the cata" but also a page dedicated to "metagame" concepts, like timing, taking ground and the importance of teamwork.

    I would be happy if we could achieve a guide both useful for new players who don't know the basic stuff and for experienced players who want to improve their teamplay and strategy. But there are just ideas, feel free to criticise if you think it would be too much work or it lacks something.

    ::):
     
  7. rymcd

    rymcd Ballista Bolt Thrower Staff Alumni Tester

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    287
    That's basically what the group threads are going to do, It'll keep it nice and organized. I'll be sending every person to it that has the skill and desire to help as well. I'm just waiting on @ParaLogia to get on steam so we can work out some details and get the group page up, I can't wait to start.

    We'll compile it all into sections, probably for different levels and/or specific sections. That way it'll be easy for a new blood or long time player to find what they're looking for without having to scroll through the opposite. I get what you're saying for credit by username for everything but I'm not sure if that'll work with what is being planned. All I can imagine is 10-15 different people trying to take credit for how to bomb jump when its only a few paragraphs at most. Also everyone is technically allowed to edit it and I just worry about people bumping heads on it to be honest.

    However don't worry though because I think I have the perfect compromise. We could have a section just for personal guides, also sorry if that's what you were implying. Basically if somebody wanted to write out an untouched knight guide, small and specific or large and thorough. We'd have a section on the wiki for that, it'd allow full credit to the author and protection from unwanted editing.


    I really love this idea as well, it'll give you guys another section to get full credit to your username. I imagine we'd want to keep it down to a paragraph per quote but we'll see. You can just write more quotes as well, I think it'd be super easy to fill up that section as well which is awesome. I'll make sure Parabb makes a thread for both of these ideas as well in the group page so you guys can start later today if you want!

    I'll have to talk to Paralogia before I get way ahead of myself, he's the brains.:wink:
    I really do think we'll be on the same page for all this though. Keep the ideas coming because I flipping love them.:heart:
     
  8. Lawrence_Shagsworth

    Lawrence_Shagsworth Joke Slayer Official Server Admin

    Messages:
    239
    "Thou shall not mash the s button on a corpse. Seriously that is messed up man"
    I am all ears for other ideas, personal guides can always be kept on the forums like they are currently
     
  9. rymcd

    rymcd Ballista Bolt Thrower Staff Alumni Tester

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    https://forum.kag2d.com/social-forums/kag-wiki-contributors.1345/
    Okay so the group is up, we're still adding threads and will be open minded on how to organize it.
    Para convinced me to keep it a little more general for now to reduce thread spam. If it gets way to cluttered we will switch to more specific things like I had originally implied.

    For now I'd suggest trying to make a clear title of what it is your wanting to write about specificity. So if you go to the builder section and you want to write about walls you'd put
    "Builder wall concepts". You can just keep going into other specific things for the builder after. If you keep splitting it up like this though it should be much easier to navigate for us down the road when the ideas really start to stack up from everybody.

    That should help us keep track of things a little better for the transfer to wiki. Don't be shy to suggest new ideas for threads though, you guys also have the permission to add your own threads.
     
    Psiklaw likes this.
  10. DatNobby

    DatNobby Ballista Bolt Thrower

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    157
    I think it would be a good idea to link up some of the guides people have written on the forums to various articles on the wiki - it's an easy way to ease people into the forums while also presenting information they may not have known existed.
    A problem with info in the class sections is that everyone has various styles of playing, and if we include info on how to play them there's bound to be conflictions (e.g "an archer should stay in the back and pick off enemies from afar" vs "an archer should be on the front, helping teammates")
     
    SirDangalang and Psiklaw like this.
  11. Psiklaw

    Psiklaw Ballista Bolt Thrower

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    179
    I agree with this

    Maybe it would be good to give a general idea about the different options a player can choose, an example for archer"some players like an aggresive strategy, while others prefer to support their team advance" like not focusing on way of playing like datnob said but writing the pages with a open view and keeping it simple for the sake of understanding.

    When/how is this going to start?
     
  12. rymcd

    rymcd Ballista Bolt Thrower Staff Alumni Tester

    Messages:
    287
    We'll probably have a section for that on the wiki, I already made a note about that.

    To be honest though it's really easy to just spilt the different play styles. Which will be done as well, there's really not a wrong answer on how to play if you get results and its not cheating.


    It already has started!:heart:

    Just click the link and join the group and start writing(after you're accepted). You can suggest things there as well and even make your own thread!

    I already started my section on drills so you can check that out if you want an example, it's under the builder section. Kedram has started one for knight and Oodle has started one for builder as well. Remember this is a place to do rough work, it's all going to be touched up for the wiki. You can also submit directly to the wiki but I strongly recommend using the group instead. You can constantly work on it this way. Also don't be shy to submit work that someone has already covered, its a great way to get the most out of every subject we're adding in.
     
  13. Psiklaw

    Psiklaw Ballista Bolt Thrower

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    Damn son I was in the group but didn't check it, thanks
     
  14. rymcd

    rymcd Ballista Bolt Thrower Staff Alumni Tester

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    @kittycity I demand you help me with the builder guides. >=^)
    We want to know more about your godlike power's and l33t spike drops.
     
  15. kittycity

    kittycity Ballista Bolt Thrower

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    Il try and write the "combat against archer/builder/knight" later today seems fun and I would love to help
     
  16. ParaLogia

    ParaLogia tired Administrator Global Moderator Forum Moderator Tester Official Server Admin

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    It's great to see that people are adding stuff. I've been/will be pretty busy this weekend, so I don't have time to reply to others, or add anything of my own. I'll get to sorting through the info as soon as possible.

    Thank you to everyone who took the time to share their experience :heart:
     
  17. RampageX

    RampageX Bison Rider Staff Alumni Tester

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    195
    I'm proud of you @rymcd. :')
     
  18. If you can pls make gifs instead of long paragraphs of text
     
    Snake19, PUNK123 and kittycity like this.
  19. rymcd

    rymcd Ballista Bolt Thrower Staff Alumni Tester

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    287
    Not sure how to respond for a lot of reasons, are you referring to the group page or the wiki at its current state?

    Also I plan on using more gifs for my own work as well. The broken computer situation has me on pause for it though. Not being able to use recording software or mumble has greatly turned me off because all I can do is picture gifs alone which take longer and have plenty of limits. I'll have a new computer in a week or so though so after that it's no problem really.

    I can't really speak for others but I imagine we'll see more as we go as well. I've personally slowed down on this for a bit due to being unusually productive in real life. By the time I get on the computer, I'm really just not in the mood. It'll pick up more once I get on a steady schedule, I actually feel guilt already for not doing more yet but I gotta keep my priorities straight for once lol.

    In the meantime anyone is allowed to submit as many gifs as they want, hell I'd actually really appreciate it. Maybe you or some other people in mumble can do some for us?
     
  20. See jig instead of writing that looong paragraph you could have just made a gif to explain what you wanted.

    Ok all jokes aside, I'm talking bout making gifs for things like spike dropping, archer stomping or knight slashing. Instead of writing a page of text explaining how to do that.
     
Mods: dnmr, Kazaco97