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Make gold [possibly the rest too - stone, bedrock etc] visible on the minimap

Discussion in 'Suggestions & Ideas' started by bunnie, Aug 27, 2017.


good idea?

  1. Of course

  2. No, should stay like it is now [say why in comments]

  3. No, but there should be an alternative [say what alternative in comments]

Mods: Rainbows
  1. i'm neither for nor against gold showing up on the minimap (i'm ok with either), but if you decide on making gold visible, then i think you should make stone visible too.
    bunnie, PUNK123 and Vermilicious like this.
  2. FoxyLady

    FoxyLady Haxor Staff Alumni

    I think gold being visible on the minimap is a bad idea. It would just then be a race as to who can build a ballista, warboat for spawning, and catapult the fastest. It's no fun that way imo. Part of the fun of being a builder is to try to make sneaky buildings under or above maps to help your team push forward. If all people know where the goods are, i feel that it will take away from the people that like to play stealthy.
  3. PUNK123

    PUNK123 Hella wRangler Staff Alumni Tester

    The minimap already removed the sneaky by showing any pockets underground.
    bunnie likes this.
  4. Essentially, this is what most games are with the inclusion of tunnels. Building these structures still requires a team to secure a location in the middle for major effects (unless the map is extremely small) In brief, most builders who know what they're doing tend to revolve around these gold-consuming mechanics one way or another, the only question here is if you want to handicap the non-experienced to encourage them to go after gold. Because one way or another, the experienced builders are going to find the gold.
    bunnie likes this.
  5. EhRa

    EhRa Ooooooof Staff Alumni Donator
    1. KRPG

    Toughen up. Gold isn't meant to be found instantly. Allow players to discover it themselves.

    As for looking at the map files, good on you, you've found a way to strengthen your knowledge. It's like reading a tutorial.
    blackjoker77777, FoxyLady and Fuzzle like this.
  6. bunnie

    bunnie Haxor Tester

    :huh?: I'm surprised by the amount of people who think it should stay the same, to be honest.
    It already is a race - a race only veterans are - usually - a part of. What matters in pubs nowadays is not global teamwork - for example, pushing as the whole team - but how many veterans there are in a team. There are many kinds of such pubstomping players; some just solo tryhard knight, some rat, and there are some too which think up of plans and tactics together with friends. If the entire enemy team is made of newbies - or maybe just noobs - then it's only a matter of time until you, the veteran do something to win; it can be as simple as buying a ballista with bomb bolts, and as complex as making a high tower with a catapult on top and a chicken launcher, launching yourself with a knight and placing a tunnel in the middle of the enemy base.

    The situation you're talking about already actually happens - and it's because of less-experienced players not knowing where gold is! A team made of players who don't know where the gold is and how to get it will get rekt hard by veterans spamming tunnels, ballistas, catapults, bomb arrows and similiar.

    Dual chicken has some good points:
    RE - part of the fun is being a builder is to try to make "sneaky" buildings under or "above" maps to help a team push? First, ratting happens and is not related to the problem at all - and is definitely not sneaky and is shown on the minimap. What even is a "sneaky building above the map"? IIRC, skybridges were purged around build 80 (and returned for short a few times) :huh?:

    How would gold shown on minimap eliminate pushing? It will, yet again, help newbies to push! If they will be able to make a tunnel at mid, they will help their team to push.

    If all people know where the goods are, newbies will maybe not be pubstomped as fast and as often and actually contribute to the team - when veterans will be timing slashes in the middle of the map and bomb jumping, they will dig - a newbie is more likely to dig when he knows where he's supposed to dig - for gold and make siege shops and tunnels (and probably still be shit at for making them at weird places by the same players who'd want them to toughen up and dig in random directions).

    And.. how will gold shown on minimap take away from people that like to play stealthy? No matter if you see gold on the minimap or not, you will be able to see a rat. Unless you mean that it will make people actually look at the minimap and rats won't be able to rat - because enemies will actually know how to play correctly - and repel them...

    Except it is instantly found. By veterans which know that gold is precious and they instantly get it and know where to get it.

    Allow players to discover it themselves - and make matches depend on the luck of diggers? why? Oops, I digged left instead of digging right where the gold would be, I deserve to lose - a veteran found the gold instantly and ballista spammed me, oh well, my bad. If people want to mine in random directions and experience the satisfaction of being lucky and finding gold randomly then they can go play Terraria or Minecraft. Good minimap would be yet another small part of the road to make people realise KAG is actually a pvp game and not be supposed to be sandbox (at least not on CTF matches) and a terraria clone.

    Want people to toughen up? sure, but then realise that it may be the reason that people reviewing the game say it's unwelcoming to new players - because, honestly, stuff like that is unwelcoming.

    Good for me, yes, not for the newbies. Looking into the fucking files of a game - something newbies wouldn't ever think of - is helping me win matches because of the bad minimap.
    Koveltskiis likes this.
  7. EhRa

    EhRa Ooooooof Staff Alumni Donator
    1. KRPG

    Except a minimap shouldn't tell you exactly how to win a game. Allowing gold to be seen on the map will even heighten the get gold fast and win scenarios. The mentality of let noobs win the race over a vet who is skilled is breaking the barriers. No point in learning gold spawn positions just for it to show on the minimap. Practically auto pilot.

    Showing gold on the minimap would have to allow stone to be shown. More problems of people minecrafting in base and taking away form your precious pvp.

    Don't make the game easier. Stop whining that people can take your gold. I doubt noobs even know how to build a siege unit, so allowing the vets to build it for them lets them experiment for themselves with the vehicles.

    The whole ballista spam the enemy subject? Too bad. Part of the game. Basically saying remove bomber planes on bf1. Allow the noobs to learn how to counter it, maybe they'll learn to get the gold themselves.

    Like seriously the games not meant to be a walk in the park.
    PooManCHU, blackjoker77777 and Osmal like this.
  8. Potatobird

    Potatobird Haxor Forum Moderator Mapping Moderator Tester Official Server Admin

    If gold were a random resource, you might have a point, but... People shouldn't have to memorize where gold is on maps. That's not a skill difference. Holding right click in a pit somewhere hoping you run into gold is not even close to being a significant part of KAG's enticing depth of competition.

    It's just a matter of convenience. Making gold locations available so that you don't have to memorize it for every map is in no way making the game a "walk in the park". And honestly, it isn't a matter of "pro vs. noob". I'm pretty sure I'm not a noob, but there are a lot of kag maps, and when I'm playin' on a new map or one I'm not familiar with, and there's no visible gold pockets (or even just caves visible on the minimap), meaning it's tucked away in some dirt, I get annoyed. I don't wanna have to find the gold and memorize that for next time I play the map, or do that savemap thing, that's just some stupid boring task. Taking the chores away just brings the focus back to the interesting challenge of the game, which is actually competing with the other team.

    As for the "it doesn't make sense for gold to be visible and not stone" thing, yeah maybe. I was thinking most maps have a handful (<10) pockets of gold, and stone is spread mostly evenly all over the map, and veins of stone are usually visible from the surface, so you won't usually have to "search" for stone. This isn't true for every map of course, I know I've had some frustrating "where is the damn stone" moments. So honestly, yeah, I think stone should be visible too. I mean, you can already see tunnels and hidden enemies on the minimap, so it's not like KAG really cares too much about the vision game anyway.
  9. Memorizing the location of materials is something you learn over time. Although, when I think of KAG I think of a PVP oriented game, not a search for materials. I don't think the game should reward the players who memorize where gold/stone is on the map, I think the use of these materials is more important. Give everyone the same opportunity with materials and see who utilizes them more efficiently. (True veterans should know how to wield materials better than other players = where the real advantage should come from)
    norill, bunnie and PUNK123 like this.
  10. Fuzzle

    Fuzzle Grand Grumbler

    It shouldn't be visible on the minimap. Instead it should create slight sparkles in the underground. The material gold blob will be visible in the same way.
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2017
    blackjoker77777, FoxyLady and EhRa like this.
  11. Olevel

    Olevel Shipwright

    if it wasn't just for gold wouldn't it show you were people are ratting?
  12. Potatobird

    Potatobird Haxor Forum Moderator Mapping Moderator Tester Official Server Admin

    What do you mean? It already does show you where people are ratting
  13. Little_Engineer

    Little_Engineer Catapult Fodder

    The different colours/details on the minimap will make it confusing
  14. Geti

    Geti Please avoid PMing me (poke a mod instead) THD Team Administrator Global Moderator

    This is more or less my take on it, fwiw.

    I find point's like eragon's fairly self defeating - you say that this is somehow going to close the gap between new players and old and make it practically autopilot, but also complain (?) that newbies probably don't even know how to use gold or how to build a siege engine. Such players are not going to be looking for tiny differences in the minimap and are certainly not going to "win the race over vets".
    bunnie, Koveltskiis and erik102003 like this.
  15. Koveltskiis

    Koveltskiis Shark Slayer

    It's also unfair to people who have bad memories and spacial reasoning like me :(
  16. Geti

    Geti Please avoid PMing me (poke a mod instead) THD Team Administrator Global Moderator

    Good to have this bumped. It's still on my list, but currently low priority.
    Didgedy and bunnie like this.
  17. Didgedy

    Didgedy Arsonist

    I would say that gold is something that is going to be used more often by veteran players anyway. It allows you to build 3 of 8 structures in CTF, and in TTH you need to pay attention on what to buy with gold (not 2 bomb arrow scrolls). TBH all you need for proper gold use in your team is at least 1 veteran player, the newbies can easily focus on other aspects.

    That being said, I do think some maps are being overly ambiguous about their gold and stone placement, but I think this is more of a mapmakers fault if anything.

    Maybe the best way to solve this problem would be some sort of helpful hints on what new players should be doing (Look for small amounts of stone on the surface, there may be lots more underneath!; Builder shops and team spawn tents will replenish your resources every 40 seconds! Pay attention to what other players are doing - you can learn a lot about the game by just watching!)
    epsilon likes this.
  18. Kazaco97

    Kazaco97 Bison Rider Global Moderator Forum Moderator

    If you want to keep the ambiguity of stone/gold couldn't you just make them the same color on the mini-map? Right now, I find it mildly annoying to search through a layers of dirt only to find out that's the only thing the map-maker put there.
    With the map cycle changing monthly (now?) I think this would be a nice addition for both new and old members alike. If it's hard to implement though, I wouldn't bother.
    bunnie likes this.
  19. PooManCHU

    PooManCHU Shopkeep Stealer

    or map makers can just not leave vast areas of land with no stone to mine, like the resource spread doesn't have to be even, just not extremely lop sided either, also is that map part of the official cycle, cause im pretty sure it's against the rule's to mark your map with your name. here's the quote from galen

    (obvious) signatures on maps are not allowed. Your recognition is having your map and your username as filename in the game.
    --- Double Post Merged, Dec 14, 2017, Original Post Date: Dec 14, 2017 ---
    also if you follows joop's basic and intermediate before making your first map, witch everyone should do btw even if your not a map maker, you would learn how to help people to find the stone and gold on your map, also just a lot of other good tips too
    Didgedy likes this.
  20. bunnie

    bunnie Haxor Tester

    if it's not visible in-game, it's not obvious
    mcrifel, Guitarman and Asu like this.
Mods: Rainbows