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Mines vs Bomb arrows (NERF MINES)

Discussion in 'Balance' started by Verzuvius, Aug 6, 2014.

?

What to do you think?

  1. Mines should cost 80g

    12 vote(s)
    31.6%
  2. Mines should cost 60g

    25 vote(s)
    65.8%
  3. Mines should deal 4 hearts on near impact

    17 vote(s)
    44.7%
  4. Mines should deal 7 hearts on near impact

    11 vote(s)
    28.9%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Verzuvius

    Verzuvius Shark Slayer

    Messages:
    545
    Mines cost 60g

    Bomb arrows cost 50g

    Mines deal 7 hearts on near impact (3,5 hearts on further distance)

    Bomb arrows deal 1,5 hearts on near impact + 1 heart from the arrow itself (0,75 heart on further distance)

    In current meta, ([1180]) I actually think mines is better than bomb arrows FOR ARCHERS. Isn't that weird?

    Mine dmg should be decreased to 4 hearts on near impact (2 hearts on further distance). Mine cost should be increased to 80g as it were before they got buffed.

    Bomb arrows is "kinda" balanced.

    Please discuss.
     
  2. Anonymuse

    Anonymuse Arsonist

    Messages:
    443
    If we're discussing straight up damage-wise, mines are pretty strong compared to bomb arrows. The thing that sucks with mines is that if you're an archer like 8 blocks away or so, a mine can still insta-kill you if an unsuspecting teammate steps on it.

    I'd say they need more severe damage dropoffs the further away people are from the source. That being, the initial damage right at the mine should stay the same, because it is a large explosive and people need to learn to have an eye out for it.

    The bomb arrow could be stronger in its damage output, but really anymore and you've almost one shot a knight with something they may not even see coming and may not have the time to react to. I believe bomb arrows are mostly balanced other than their use as base destroyers as 2 or 3 archers spamming bomb arrows at a base will effectively ruin it and for not many coins at all.
     
    SirDangalang likes this.
  3. Frederikam

    Frederikam Drill Rusher

    Messages:
    88
    It's faster, and probably more admin-friendly, to just report your post, while leave your intentions in the report text box.

    But anyway, I think mines are fine as they are. While mines can do good damage, they are mostly just "disarmed" by knights, dealing no damage at all. Bomb arrows however are very easy to shoot at an enemy, but their main purpose, imo, is to destroy structures from afar, as such damage isn't as important for the use of bomb arrows.
     
  4. Klokinator

    Klokinator Such Beta
    1. Aphelion's Roleplay

    Messages:
    1,443
    Mines should not deal structural damage. I've said it once, I'll say it a hundred times more. Mines shouldn't start activating till they're actually on the ground (So no more tossing a mine off a tower and it being activated before it hits the ground), they should be used for heavy damage on enemies while kegs and bombs and drills and builders and bomb arrows and fire arrows are used for base destruction. (See how many valid options we have?)

    I should be able to put a mine in the flag and have it protect me from wild battle builders breaking in recklessly. I should not be able to use it as a half cost easy-2-use keg replacement. SEriously, thanks to the new changes, they're even BETTER than they were before the update, since they're cheaper and they don't break when falling from heights.

    KAG doesn't need more ways to destroy blocks. We've got plenty.
     
    emasame, SirDangalang and DatNobby like this.
  5. DatNobby

    DatNobby Ballista Bolt Thrower

    Messages:
    157
    I've recently seen archers toss mines instead of using bomb arrows, and it almost always works.
    It's gotten to the point where people buy mines instead of kegs or bomb arrows, because you just lob it in the general direction of enemies and run away giggling as they all explode. Not to mention that you don't even need an actual enemy to set them off - you can toss almost any item in this game at a mine and with enough speed it goes off.
    Nerf mines pl0x
     
    Klokinator and Verzuvius like this.
  6. this comparison makes no sense - bomb arrows, ARROWS. you can't shoot mines, can you?
     
  7. DatNobby

    DatNobby Ballista Bolt Thrower

    Messages:
    157
    You can toss them across the fucking map and have them not break, that's what you can do.
    I see archers getting close to whatever they're destroying to try and shoot a key point/not miss - that's very well close enough to toss a mine or two.
     
  8. Anonymuse

    Anonymuse Arsonist

    Messages:
    443
    Imagine if you could shoot mines with arrows like you can shoot burgers. That'd be fucking sick. Just launch one over a base or shoot it through an opening.
     
    Dargona1018 and emasame like this.
  9. Klokinator

    Klokinator Such Beta
    1. Aphelion's Roleplay

    Messages:
    1,443
    Your definition of "sick" is oddly close to my definition of "completely broken".
     
    Dargona1018 and Anonymuse like this.
  10. Anonymuse

    Anonymuse Arsonist

    Messages:
    443
    Exactly! ::P:
     
    emasame likes this.
  11. Klokinator

    Klokinator Such Beta
    1. Aphelion's Roleplay

    Messages:
    1,443
    Seriously tho what the duck are you smoking to become this odd.
     
    Anonymuse likes this.
  12. Verzuvius

    Verzuvius Shark Slayer

    Messages:
    545
    It's the explosion that is weird not the range you can toss them. Mines got such greater radius and dealing tons of more damage. This is not a bomb arrow buff thread. It's a nerf mines thread!

    Nowadays, everyone use mines, knights as well as archers. Mines is the new kegs and bomb arrows! People are just loading themselves with 2-3 mines and tosses them around in their opponent's base as they are harder take care of then kegs and outclasses bomb arrows in destruction.

    Nerf mines, especially the cost. Maybe remove that you can trigger the mines with (everything) corpses, logs, heart, etc.

    Stay on topic please.
     
  13. NastyCamper

    NastyCamper Builder Stabber

    Messages:
    18
    A few aspects of mines are currently broken:
    1. They can be detonated with almost any item in the field. That's dumb. Someone should have to step on it or it should have to be shot with an arrow.
    2. The damage radius is broken as fuck, as already pointed out. For 60g...c'mon. Turn that shit down.
    3. The impact should be unblockable. This falls more into the "knights are insanely broken" topic but for the sake of this conversation, stepping on a mine should kill you, 100% every time. If stone blocks don't protect anyone from the blast why should a shield?
    Now in regards to bomb arrows, as the top ranked archer in the world my feedback on this subject is invaluable so take notes:
    1. The price is fine. Before the addition of siege damage gold it was extremely difficult to amass gold as an archer. I'm talking in relative terms of course. Knights get gold basically for just putzing around the board and builders can shit stone blocks and get 2g per. For archers we have to score a hit to make money. Since we mostly face knights, this can be insanely hard. Factor in builders closing shit behind us when we leave base to fight and then have no recourse to get back in and we die and lose our gold....yeah.
    2. The damage they do is fine. The way I see bomb arrows (and really it's the only opinion you should consider) is that they are strategic weapons for base destruction and for precision kills. It's an item that forces the archer to rely on his/her (haha!) skills and the penalty for missing is a big price tag. The results, if used properly, can win games and win them quickly.
    3. The fact that knights can fully block bomb arrows with their shields is fucking retarded. Fucking. Retarded. If anyone involved in the development of the game is reading this please, fix this. It's absurd. Right clicking a mouse should not enable god mode for any class. This is an explosive propelled at high velocity. It can level entire structures. Your shield is insignificant in comparison. Fix this.
    4. Bomb arrow spam is fine because it's useless. As I mentioned in point #2, it's a precision weapon. Arrow spam, outside of up close fights, is anything but precise. I only play CTF because that's the only mode a real man should play so I can't speak for the other girly modes that casuals and role-players delight in but for CTF, arrow bomb spam is useless so don't bitch if you see it coming at you. Relish in the fact that the other team has autists for archers.
    That is all. Back to work all of you.
     
    Dargona1018, NinjaCell and austinthus like this.
  14. Anonymuse

    Anonymuse Arsonist

    Messages:
    443
    TL;DR for people is "nerf knight more"
     
  15. Klokinator

    Klokinator Such Beta
    1. Aphelion's Roleplay

    Messages:
    1,443
    I agree with him though. Why can I shield against bomb arrows and mines?

    Really though, my ideal tweaks go like so:

    1. Make mines not harm structures.
    2. Make them deal 4 hearts damage on unshielded enemy.
    3. Make them deal 2H damage on shielded enemy.
    4. Make them not activate until they touch the ground.
    5. Make bomb arrows penetrate shields (Half their current damage)

    Mines are now anti-infantry defensive devices. You can still break them with slashes, but mine-bombing up and over the enemy's base isn't a thing anymore. Kegs should be the anti-base while mines are anti-infantry. It just makes sense to me.
     
    SirDangalang and Corpsey like this.
  16. Verzuvius

    Verzuvius Shark Slayer

    Messages:
    545
    Just got this awesome idea. What if mines disabled the knights shield for a while if the knight where shielding when the mine exploded near the knight? "Oh no! My shield broke!" So that knights don't want to hit the mine with their shield as archers will kill them instantly if they do.

    Just an idea, sounds a bit like a weird-dupolas-idea, but I don't know, maybe you like it.
     
  17. NastyCamper

    NastyCamper Builder Stabber

    Messages:
    18
    In this context no, but overall yes. That class is more broken than your grandmother's hip.
     
  18. Boea

    Boea Such Beta

    Messages:
    653
    My grandmothers' are dead, and knights were intended to be lightning bruisers from day one.
     
    Anonymuse likes this.
  19. SirDangalang

    SirDangalang Lvl. 128 MissingNo. Donator

    Messages:
    235
    I like the idea of mine debuffs ideas suggested by Verzuvius and Klokinator because honestly as a player who mainly plays archer I really do prefer mines for their destructive power to EVERYTHING over the bomb arrow and I think that is quite wrong xD

    When catching a enemy off guard with an attack I'd rather throw a mine at his face than shoot a bomb arrow since it's direct and splash damage is more likely to kill even a knight outright if he/she is not paying attention which in an intense fight is often. The fact that the bomb arrow is de-buffed to ensure any full health player besides archer can't be killed in one shot is a well thought out balance as Anonymuse points out; a balance consideration that kind of goes out of the window with mines lol.

    When wanting to destroy structures a mine can even be triggered by a dead enemy body and just does more damage to blocks than bomb arrows, even if it's only at the base of such structures usually. In comparison to a keg which usually takes a team effort to take to the front lines with the slow movement speed and risk of getting it knocked off one's back, rushing forward as an archer with an inventory full of mines feels way too easy in comparison.

    Mines are so good that even with some of the debuffs mentioned such as no damage to blocks, the hesitation a dropped mine gives to a knight charging at an archer is a cool distancing tactic that has a different dynamic to shooting water arrows (if you're fine with being a big spender in CTF an all).

    KAG gods please cure this poor archer's mine addiction and make them less valuable! :D
     
    Verzuvius, DatNobby and Aurora- like this.
  20. mines:
    should be 70-80 coin
    shouldn't be able to be carried by archers
    should take A LOT of fall damage

    why fix something that wasn't broken?
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2014
    DatNobby likes this.