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New Default Game Mode Proposal - "War"

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Geti, Aug 1, 2011.

Mods: Hella, Lieber, ParaLogia
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  1. Geti

    Geti Please avoid PMing me (poke a mod instead) THD Team Administrator Global Moderator

    Messages:
    3,730
    So, while CTF might suit some, and gold rush might suit others, it seems a lot of players play KAG like it's a war game... which it is. It just doesn't have a "War" mode yet.
    Thus, in a conversation last night me and Michal decided that the default game-mode should probably reflect this.

    Our proposal:

    Initial situation:
    Each team has a small (eventually wooden) castle consisting of a spawn point "hall" room (functions the same as the tent, just fits in with the castle more). Until we get items lying around on the map sorted, everyone spawns with a full inventory of wood and stone to construct the fort with.

    Over the course of the game:
    We're planning a few mechanics which will shake things up a lot, however things will be more or less the same; teams construct forts and outposts, as per usual. They push forwards and try to raid each other's constructions.

    Win/Lose condition:
    If all of one team's spawn points have been destroyed, naturally no more units can respawn. At this point, if all of that team's players are killed, or leave the game, the attacking team wins.

    What this means in terms of gameplay

    This means that the current "base rape" scenario ends with one team losing, rather than heinously crippled and waiting for the other team to run the flag back. This way there's a climax to the game and at least a more interesting "end game" situation - cornering and striking down the survivors, if any. If the survivors get away and can find some resources, they'd be able to rebuild any spawn point (outpost or hall) and the rest of their team will be able to aid them in recovering.

    Capture the flag will still be an option for server hosts, so will gold hunt.
    If we add more structures to "War", they'll get added to those modes too.

    However, unless there's a huge uproar, this will probably be the direction that we lean in with "official" development.

    Feel free to ask questions, post concerns or voice approval. We're open ears at this point, we'll be working on the conversion before the next build is released by the weekend if all goes to plan :)
     
    Geti, Aug 1, 2011
    #1
    Vikthar likes this.
  2. unwoundpath

    unwoundpath Arsonist

    Messages:
    234
    I like it, It would definitely end those stalemates, and I think It would be more fun overall.
     
    unwoundpath, Aug 1, 2011
    #2
  3. czubai

    czubai KAG Guard Tester

    Messages:
    173
    Would love to try that before whining, but I think this mode could be stalemate-friendly as well. But at least with no base rape. ;)
     
    czubai, Aug 1, 2011
    #3
  4. Thorn

    Thorn Guest

    Sounds awesome. I like it. Sally forth!
     
    Thorn, Aug 1, 2011
    #4
  5. Contrary

    Contrary The Audacious Paramount of Explosive Flight Donator Tester

    Messages:
    2,196
    I will always refer to this gamemode as "Tennis".
     
    Contrary, Aug 1, 2011
    #5
  6. saniblues

    saniblues KAG Guard Tester

    Messages:
    418
    I will always refer to this gamemode as "who can hide their outposts the deepest underground?"
     
    saniblues, Aug 1, 2011
    #6
  7. dnmr

    dnmr Ministry of ban Global Moderator Forum Moderator Donator Tester

    Messages:
    667
    go for it.
    CTF does not work too well with destructible terrain right now, especially when the flag is attached to the tent.
     
    dnmr, Aug 1, 2011
    #7
  8. Nebuchadnezzar

    Nebuchadnezzar Shopkeep Stealer

    Messages:
    114
    Would be cool if all outposts showed up on the mini map, this way at least everyone knows where to strike. Especially if they tunnel deep underground. Gold should be scarce, but not particularly any large amount anywhere, to avoid one team getting too much of the gold if they hold a certain area.
     
    Nebuchadnezzar, Aug 1, 2011
    #8
  9. Neat

    Neat King of the Dead Donator Tester

    Messages:
    1,958
    Sounds good and all, but don't you think you should reveal those mechanics? Especially if you're asking for questions/opinions...
     
    Neat, Aug 1, 2011
    #9
  10. Shadlington

    Shadlington THD Team THD Team Administrator Global Moderator

    Messages:
    1,562
    I would very much like this.

    It is extremely griefer-exposed though, so that adds further reason for everyone to get gold accounts!
     
    Shadlington, Aug 1, 2011
    #10
  11. miaow

    miaow Guest

    Looks painful, I'm in
     
    miaow, Aug 1, 2011
    #11
  12. Kagesha

    Kagesha KAG Guard Tester

    Messages:
    224
    this, but yea i can see things like hiding at the corner of the map (much like i do with single villagers in aoe2 if i'm about to lose), add a timelimit once the main/final outpost has been destroyed.
     
    Kagesha, Aug 1, 2011
    #12
  13. Monsteri

    Monsteri Slower Than Light Tester

    Messages:
    1,916
    Yay, sounds awesome! Yeah there could be the single hidors :D Perhaps instead of immediatly win show the enemies location in minimap when the main base is destroyer or something.
     
    Monsteri, Aug 1, 2011
    #13
  14. Geti

    Geti Please avoid PMing me (poke a mod instead) THD Team Administrator Global Moderator

    Messages:
    3,730
    @Contrary: saw that coming ;)
    @Neat: Sure, once we've got a good handle on what we think should happen I'll open discussion. I'd rather let you guys focus on one thing at a time.

    It seems the primary concern for skeptics is that rogue developments might be hard to track down or that this would encourage corner-of-the-map outposts etc. Outposts will appear on the map next build afaik, and we could probably add a switch to show enemies on the map after the last spawn point has been destroyed, or with some other condition (perhaps a building).

    What other solutions can you guys think of to counter that? I'm not against allowing turtling but I can see why you'd be worried about 'hiding' units.
    I think it could be quite fun though, considering they'd need to be a builder to pose long-term threat. It'd be a very stressful situation for the trapped player.



    Oh also note that ideally maps like this
    [​IMG]
    would prevent much hiding via tunneling as the easily diggable area isn't very deep near each team's base.

    Keep the feedback coming, this is good.
     
    Geti, Aug 1, 2011
    #14
  15. Shadlington

    Shadlington THD Team THD Team Administrator Global Moderator

    Messages:
    1,562
    The point about the maps is a good one.
    Good map design is going to be very important with this mode - which is good if it promotes it.
     
    Shadlington, Aug 1, 2011
    #15
  16. Neat

    Neat King of the Dead Donator Tester

    Messages:
    1,958
    Make it so that the team who loses their main tent can only build another tent, no more outposts. If they want to win they can then try and capture enemy outposts, which might give away where they are coming from. The main problem is that builders can block up tunnels so easily, so they can hide the route they took to the hidden base. I really think this is something that needs to be tested first though. How about make it so you can only build the foundations of a tent while you still own your first tent. This would mean that builders after seeing their tent get destroyed would quickly rush down to finish off their tent they decided on as a back up. Eagle eyed attackers would be able to follow the builders, who would not suicide as it wipes them out of the game.

    Another idea to prevent builders from tunneling themselves into the bottom of the map and just sitting there entombed is to make a time limit after the main tent is destroyed. If the time limit runs out and theres still no new tent built, then the remaining losing units start dying off one by one, starting with the ones with the lowest score.
     
    Neat, Aug 1, 2011
    #16
  17. unwoundpath

    unwoundpath Arsonist

    Messages:
    234
    Nah, Ive seen builders with higher score (by 1000) than me (knight) with around 50 kills.
     
    unwoundpath, Aug 1, 2011
    #17
  18. D'Nightingale

    D'Nightingale Guest

    I believe this will vastly improve gameplay, CTF just doesn't work very well with the game as it is right now.

    I just can't wait when my team wins and as a climax we get to slaughter all those poor minners in the rear without any mercy :D
     
    D'Nightingale, Aug 1, 2011
    #18
  19. Neat

    Neat King of the Dead Donator Tester

    Messages:
    1,958

    I wasn't saying they had the lowest score. I was just saying that people with the lowest score should be the ones to die first, as they're not contributing as much. The highest score people will be the last to survive and have not much time left to put in a tent. Eventually that blasted hiding builder will still die, whether he's the last or first, so long as he doesn't put a new tent up.
     
    Neat, Aug 1, 2011
    #19
  20. illu

    illu En Garde! Donator Tester

    Messages:
    737
    Another easy solution would be to only allow the building of outpost on places where there is no background layer. So not in tunnels and caves. (But of course in fortresses.) Or other way around: Disallow outpost-building on the...maybe 100 lowest blocks of the map or something. You could set that limit in the ini-file of the map.
     
    illu, Aug 1, 2011
    #20
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