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Discussion in 'Announcements' started by SirSalami, Oct 19, 2011.
KAG is in Desura.
Ah, cool. Good to know.
wanna caravans :D
As I've said, we're feature-locking the free version soon and planning on adding stuff to the full version only, thus the "classic" in the free game's name (classic as in outdated, but enjoyable ;) ).
As for them being compared, the games will likely play very differently and no assumptions should be made about things carrying over between the versions - ask first before making this face: D:>
As a quick example, if we kept the combat as fast-paced with permadeath, we'd likely only end up with diehard players because it would be very very punishing - as such we'll likely slow down the combat a touch and add more health and armour to the later classes. As another (because "what if my character's castle is broken while I sleep do I die that's bad aaaah" is the most frequent question/freakout I've seen) castle destruction will likely only be feasible with dedicated siege equipment, not one builder, plus there will likely be COM controlled guards (bots) around to keep the walls free from pests.
We expect a lot of work to have to go into making the game harder to troll. We'll come to that bridge when we need to cross it.
Will additional content still be added KAG's patented bloody and quick game modes for those who buy "Premium"? I think I've read you saying that somewhere before...
Yup, though the amount of content added there will likely slowly peter off as we lean more to researchable techs and skills than buildings and classes. There'll be more serverside config stuff for full version servers from then on too, naturally.
Zombies is NOT definite, There is just a halloween update we will experience.
I have the feeling KAG is going the way of LD.
Sure, you have a working engine.
Then again the engine is held together with duct tape and staples and has to be refactored or rewritten lest it falls apart on it's own.
Sure, you have a playerbase willing to support you.
Then again at the moment there's little to offer those willing to pay. Both refactoring the engine and implementing the overworld will mean long periods of time without visible progress for the players.
Sure, the idea of an overworld is great. No doubt about it, MMO and persistence is the future. Every game studio is trying to implement at least certain features of it.
Then again the industry as a whole has only recently begun taking baby-steps in this direction. MMO games are by far the most complex and resource-intensive games to develop.
I don't know your plan for this overworld thing, but I hope you have a damn good one.
Archont, the low amount of premium purchases is undoubtedly a result of the very low amount offered by it currently. Once Geti & MM get something like THIS (amazing) premium only, I'm almost sure the sale numbers will go up.
Here's some of my thoughts:
1. Multiple characters per player: It would be nice to have legal alt chars on the server, so when your main character is too important to risk (he's a king for example), you can swap to some militia and hop into battle. To prevent abusing it:
-you still need to grind those alt chars, just like main character
-other chars are vulnerable while you use main character
-something like food system - you need to feed all characters while you're playing (but if you're completely offline, they sleep without eating). And if only one char work, the more chars you have, more % of your gameplay is taken by gathering food. High lvl chars could accept only good food (so you can choose to have multiple weaker chars or one stronger at the same cost)
-alt chars could work as AI, so you need to create, feed and level up multiple characters if you want good offline defence
-you couldn't spam them during attack, because you need to travel each of them manually from home, leaving those already on battlefield vulnerable (unless you build siege camp to store them)
2. Something about offline stadium:
-maybe instead of killing offline players, they could only be captured? Captured character can be robbed, beaten, released, feed (or starved). If you feed him, he'll join you as alt char after some time (depend on level), if starved, he'll die after about a week. It would allow fun political relations: paying ransom, exchanging prisoners, recapturing them.
-setting offline char as AI guard - instead of hiring one, create it, train, gear up and feed. then either change to constant AI guard (if alts aren't allowed) or keep it as alt
3. About world map:
3.1 Personally I'd make it that you need to travel manually all areas at your way, instead of skipping them via map. Because:
-time relations between players are more logical - if it takes 2 minutes to travel from one point to another via scene, why should it takes 2s via map?
-it allows controlling of passages, like bridges, mountain passages, tunnels, roads, ect.
-it encourage building things like roads and bridges between towns, villages, mines, ect.
-bandits can hide on the path somewhere
-with joining scene by just going there on the world map, how can you determine from which side you enter?
-better feel of distance. capturing settlement far far away from your own castle shouldn't be good idea, because you need to split your forces evenly. Only really viable options in such situation should be pillaging, burning, taking slaves, ect.
3.2 and how? I'd use triangle/square/hexagon grid, and make each edge (not point or figure) a single scene. And when you leave 2d scene, you have to choose which direction you want to go next (5 choices for triangle grid, 3 choices for squares and 2 for hexagons + of course always option to stay in current scene). Changes in scene could be somehow shown on the world map:
-forest if a lot of trees in the scene
-plains if only a few
-road if level is flattened enough for animals and vehicles to pass
-castle if certain amount of stone slabs is visible from above
-canyon if there is one in the scene from the beginning. With bridge if one is built there.
And all other features that can be tracked easily.
3.3 After some time (maybe a week of noone passing/sleeping there), abandoned scene file could be deleted, but visual representation on the map should stay and be base for new map generation.
4. Player classes and customization.
4.1.1 I don't like when you only have option of weaker and stronger item - it's much more interesting if there are multiple viable options.
i.e: armours: light, medium, heavy; with advantages and disadvantages for each of them: heavy +2hp, can't climb, use bows, use siege engine, build, dig; medium: +1hp, can't climb or crawl; light +0hp, can do anything
4.1.2 It's also nice to choose which and how many usable types do we want - preferably by using slot system:
i.e: 4 slots and choose of: sword, shield (large=2slots, can't use 2h weapons; small=1slot), bomb, spear (longer range, only stab, can be thrown), 2h axe (2slots, can't use large shield), shovel, pickaxe, shortbow, longbow (2slots, higher damage and range, lower ROF), arrows, constructing tools, larger backpack (200 resources instead of 100), grappling hook.
4.2 I also like no class system (freedom of skill choice with moderately low level cap).
i.e: one skill point per level, max 4lvl, available skills: throwing, shielding, melee combat (charged strike), extra health, archery (basic and advanced), crouching+crawling, climbing, construction (basic and advanced), extra digging.
4.3 With both of those systems, we could either create basic classes
(warrior: melee, shielding, throwing, extra health; items: sword, large shield, bombs; armour=heavy)
or new interesting classes:
(assault: melee, shielding, climbing, throwing; items: sword, small shield, grappling hook, bombs; armour=light)
(saboteur: climbing, throwing, crawling, extra health; items: grappling hook, bombs, bombs, bombs; armour:light)
(militia: melee, shielding, basic archery, extra health; items: sword, small shield, shortbow, arrows; armour:medium) and all other nice combination
5. Guilds: what about something more original than classic guild system with one leader and bunch of members. Like for example feudal system: each character can select his senior (who can decline of course), and you can have as many vassals as you want.
What's the difference? well:
-when king is killed, faction split into several smaller factions. Also if some sub-commander (lord/sergeant) dies, his servants are cut off from the faction
-there is no stupid democratic ellection, but only those who lead, and those who knee. If you want to change leader, new leader must leave and others need to change their seniors from previous leader and swear to new one.
-possibility of internal faction politics - if king have direct servant (powerful lord) who have shitload of direct servants, that lord can betray and all his peoples will betray with him at the same time
-there can be automatic title system, so we don't have "king" with only 2 serfs. i.e: min. 30 servants and nobody above you=king/; 15 servants=lord/jarl/chieftain; 5 servants=knight/sergeant/boss. Auto-titles could be also combined with in-game
6. Diplomatics: I bet there will be standard hostile/neutral/ally system, so only thing that I'd like to add is that after faction split, members should remain as allies - so no instant teamkill mess, but only loss of faction chat.
Hmm... a little wall of text. But I like creating long description of features that nobody will ever use :P
Thanks for reading ;)
People keep suggesting that your character doesn't get more powerful with each level (like above post), this isn't KAG classic people A fight between a level 20 and a level 1 isnt supposed to be balanced.
Calen your customization can only, ONLY, apply to gold members due to the obvious customization features being included soon for Gold only.
Calen you're talking about changing the design of the game completely. We'll make other games and perhaps do things like that, but we've got a pretty good idea of what we want out of KAG.
Archont I don't think it's going the way of LD because we've got enough people actively playing now that as we roll out paid features (starting over the next couple of weeks, though the "halloween" aspect of zombies is going to be a little late to the metaphorical party) they can be picked up gradually. We've also had a good number of sales over the past couple of days, likely largely due to people who didn't even know there was a paid version buying due to the premium poster.
Well - for me having one more hp or ability to use a bow sounds like "getting more powerful".
Also - fact that we have customization by not restricting classes doesn't prevent adding levels to each skill (like "melee lvl 1", "archery lvl 3", ect,)
We're talking about gold-only game-mode, aren't we?
@Geti - those are only ideas that could be used (not necessary all of them) in your game mode, not really complete game change IMO
Wanna hardcore in overworld mode :D
1 life = 1 hero = 1 death = not spawn = more tactic = more teamplay = more brainwars = more interesting
ur items can be hidden^ in the trunks,chests,combination lock,in the recesses and more
MM mentioned to me before that there will probably be no experience (or leveling up) but rather that it will be dependant on the equipment (or at least mainly) he compared it to Zelda, in that you find weapons/objects that let you get more powerful... he said there will be things like heart containers though.
I know this comes a little late, just read through all the posts in here and the question came up.
This is the exact system I wanted. I'm alright with leveling, but I'd much rather be forced to explore or pillage for equipment than farm and farm and farm hoards of zombies for exp.
fwiw we're still tossing up how getting stronger will work. The exploring and pillaging will certainly be our main aim regardless though :)
@Geti, Okay good to know,
I really hope it will be an experience-less system though. I personally don't like experience based systems a whole lot... they simply seem bland and uninspired... I rather SEE my progression (in terms of new weapons/new moves)
But I am sure it will be great regardless what kind of system you put in place.
This sounds cool ^^ Although there will be a "classic" mode, right? Where we can just jump in and do a statless CTF match?
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