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Reducing shotgun spam

Discussion in 'Balance' started by FuzzyBlueBaron, Jan 27, 2015.

  1. FuzzyBlueBaron

    FuzzyBlueBaron Warm, Caring, Benign, Good and Kind Philanthrope Global Moderator Forum Moderator Donator Tester
    1. The Young Blood Collective - [YB]

    Messages:
    2,508
    This is a first for me, posting something in S&I. I... I feel kinda... dirty. :oops:

    Anyway.

    Just posting to gauge people feedback for an idea I've been mulling over for a while now:

    Make arrows fired from the archer's shotgun attack decay/break sooner.

    In effect, I'm suggesting that arrows fired shotgun-style only fly ~half a screen (mid zoom) before breaking mid-air. Tops. Maybe even less distance.

    Why?

    Because the single biggest difference between skilled archers and pleb archers is that one group uses carefully aimed shots, at a variety of charge levels, to make life miserable for the enemy, whereas the other group uses a constant barrage of mindlessly spammed arrow-shotgun to make life miserable for the enemy.

    One group, although individually tricky to deal with (due to their skill at being slippery-bastards), are generally few in number and hence can be dealt with, one way or another. :skull:

    The second group, otoh, are legion; however many you kill, there're always more--and their spam is irrepressible. :spam:

    If we make shotgun strictly a short-range attack then it can continue to be used as it was intended (allow a ballsy archer to 1v1 a knight) without allowing plebs to spam endlessly (clogging the very air one breaths) in the vain hope of being even remotely useful. Suddenly long range archery becomes a matter of needing to aim, and those wishing to employ shotgun will need to come the fuck out of their campy towers! :rektlord:

    So, um yes. Does anyone have any thoughts on the matter?
     
    Anonymuse, J-man2003, Tern and 9 others like this.
  2. Trumbles

    Trumbles Base Burner

    Messages:
    449
    My biggest problem with the shotgun, is that the two decaying shots will arc. This means that if you shoot horizontally, eventually the middle and top arrow will meet. This results in the shotgun still having one-shot potential against archers at it's maximum range.

    I feel that the shotgun should definitely have an earlier decay.
     
  3. Verzuvius

    Verzuvius Shark Slayer

    Messages:
    545
    This dirty suggestion has been suggested/discussed before.

    Locked. Lrn2mkesugsthrd, newb.
     
    J-man2003 likes this.
  4. FuzzyBlueBaron

    FuzzyBlueBaron Warm, Caring, Benign, Good and Kind Philanthrope Global Moderator Forum Moderator Donator Tester
    1. The Young Blood Collective - [YB]

    Messages:
    2,508
    No, you mentioned it in this thread (twice-- the second time replying to your own post). It was never discussed, and in fact appears to have been ignored/lost in the general flow of conversation. If you want an idea discussed, make a distinct thread for it! As it stands you broke the first rule of S&I:
    Otoh, I looked through the list before posting and, funnily enough, this idea wasn't present.

    Add to the discussion or not, but don't accuse me of failing to take all due care before wading down into this foul corner of the forums.

    I did my research, sir. Maybe next time you'll do yours? :huh?:
     
    PUNK123, Anonymuse, J-man2003 and 2 others like this.
  5. Verzuvius

    Verzuvius Shark Slayer

    Messages:
    545
    That's my twin... How could you not see that?

    Yeye, I know. Tried to be fun. Epic fail.

    It's good that you are bringing it back up again.
     
  6. TheDirtySwine

    TheDirtySwine Bison Rider Staff Alumni Donator

    Messages:
    818
    Wow everyone is throwing around the word dirty like it's bad or something ;(

    I agree with the shotgun balance, it gets frustrating when there are a ton of noob archers and maybe a good one that just constantly spam arrows.

    It's too bad that we couldn't have legolas back with a similar decay, that way players could alternate between the two styles (Maybe with spacebar?).
     
    kodysch, Anonymuse, J-man2003 and 3 others like this.
  7. Potatobird

    Potatobird Ballista Bolt Thrower Forum Moderator Official Server Admin Tester

    Messages:
    761
    I really just want legolas back. Shotgun is annoying for everybody except the one shooting it. There are so many ways that legolas could have been changed instead of making it into a shotgun, that was too drastic in my opinion.
     
    Blue_Tiger, Verzuvius and dayleaf like this.
  8. dayleaf

    dayleaf Ballista Bolt Thrower
    1. The Thieves Guild

    Messages:
    255
    Why i cant +1 this comment infinite times?
    But really, i want my legolas shot back :left:78787878
     
  9. Verzuvius

    Verzuvius Shark Slayer

    Messages:
    545
    I agree that it was too drastic. However, I think that the "shotgun-shot" is better as it is another type of attack compared to regular shots.

    Legolas nice and awesome but you will always love Gimli more.
     
  10. Fernegulus

    Fernegulus Drill Rusher

    Messages:
    400
    Why should we allow an archer to 1v1 a knight in crc in the first place?
    Why should we make every class the same, for fuck's sake, that's what was cool in classic! Knights did the combat and the other classes were purely supportive. And I don't see how was that bad!
    Why ever shotgun or legolas shot in the first place?
     
    Asu and ShnitzelKiller like this.
  11. I think the reason why you get so much blow-back from the "support" argument these days is because in classic, "support" meant "support". In the current game, support means something much closer to "bystander".
     
  12. Fernegulus

    Fernegulus Drill Rusher

    Messages:
    400
    Haha, true
     
  13. FuzzyBlueBaron

    FuzzyBlueBaron Warm, Caring, Benign, Good and Kind Philanthrope Global Moderator Forum Moderator Donator Tester
    1. The Young Blood Collective - [YB]

    Messages:
    2,508
    I'm intrigued about the love people are spouting for legolas. Both attack styles seem intended to capitalise on the shield-break effect that occurs within 10 tiles of a knight, but that really makes them a cqc attack. What other highly-useful abilities can you ascribe to legolas (but not shotgun) that wouldn't be made useless/impossible by the suggested change of having arrows from 3x attacks break sooner (possibly almost as soon as they've exceed that 10 tile shield-break range)?

    Ah. That was your first mistake. Everyone knows I don't have a sense of humour; I am actually a spam bot from the future that fell in love with @Shadlington's mighty chin-cleft and @Geti's wavy golden locks--and have been jealously guarding their forums ever since. Beep bop beep bop. :gear::heart::gear::heart:
     
  14. dayleaf

    dayleaf Ballista Bolt Thrower
    1. The Thieves Guild

    Messages:
    255
    Well the shield break range was bigger when the legolas shot existed, then reduced when we changed to shotgun, it was less CQC than now ...

    Edit: and well, when someone shots you with the shotgun, and the arrows stack just to instakill you even if you are like 10+ blocks away from the enemy archer it's annoying, pretty annoying.
     
  15. Verzuvius

    Verzuvius Shark Slayer

    Messages:
    545
    I think I'll make a thread about what role the archer has and how/why it should be buffed. :smug::thumbs_up:
     
  16. Asu

    Asu THD Team THD Team Forum Moderator

    Messages:
    1,553
    The thing is archer is supposed to be a support class, not crc. The shotgun should be used to stun knights, so a teammate can kill him. Lowering the decay range would be pointless. They'll keep killing knights before he even can jab him.
    Against a good archer, you have no luck. You only can kill him using bombs. He will grapplin spam around you and keep killing you with the shotgun (*cough* @malfunction *cough*). It shouldn't be that hard. I think the shotgun should be heavily nerfed at close distance, and modified to keep it useful at far distance. What do you think?

    What role the archer should have?
    • support builders and knights
    What roles does it has?
    • support builders and knights
    • kill enemy builders, knights and archers at crc or at long range hiding behind platforms
    • save towers from enemy kegs with a single arrow
    • piss off enemy troups by grappling everywhere in their base so they waste 200 coins of bombs on you
    • burn buildings
    • explode buildings
    It should be also able to cast the scroll of carnage anytime for 10 coins
     
    J-man2003 and Fernegulus like this.
  17. Auburn

    Auburn Prepare Yourself! Forum Moderator Official Server Admin Donator Tester
    1. SharSharShar - [SHARK]

    Messages:
    734
    I actually don't really find that archer spam is all that annoying (in pub matches that is, gather/tickets mode is another story) because I can try however many times I need to, to either get past them or kill all the spamming archers. Because of the decay, you don't really have to worry about being shot until you get close to their tower, so archers aren't overpowered at long range.
    I feel like the archer class in general is constantly up for debate because people always want to play archer in 2 ways: close-midrange ninja, or long range pro sniper. The archer population seems to be split in half because of this. As it stands, if you were to make archer tip slightly more in one style, the other half won't like it. Personally, I think no matter how people look at it, this is probably going to be the most balanced (in mechanics, items are still up in the air) it will get.
     
    J-man2003 likes this.
  18. Verzuvius

    Verzuvius Shark Slayer

    Messages:
    545
    What is a "long range pro sniper"? :huh?:
     
  19. Asu

    Asu THD Team THD Team Forum Moderator

    Messages:
    1,553
    Campers.
    As some archers. ^
     
    J-man2003 likes this.
  20. FuzzyBlueBaron

    FuzzyBlueBaron Warm, Caring, Benign, Good and Kind Philanthrope Global Moderator Forum Moderator Donator Tester
    1. The Young Blood Collective - [YB]

    Messages:
    2,508
    Ideally, this kind of change would solve some of that, as you'd have to be within ~10-12 blocks for the arrows to be reaching at all.