Shield Bash Balance

We have all had a few days to get use to incorporating shield bashing back into the mix, I'm curious to hear peoples thoughts on the subject. I have some grievances with it’s current form.

The only strong opinion I have about shield bashing is that when spammed (repeatedly pushing forward while clicking the right mouse button) it nullifies every close range attack by an opposing knight or archer. I don’t believe a shield bash should stun and nullify all offensive knight attacks, particularly a full slash. It’s not viable to take the time to charge up for a full slash currently, because you know it can be anticipated, stuffed, and stun locked instantly with a shield bash. A full slash and shield bash should not interact in this way. There should be a pay off for taking the time to fully charge your slash in knight combat. (This point is what I would appreciates comments on the most.)

There is simply no way to counter shield bashing, other then spamming your shield, which seems to take away from the tactical aspect of knight combat and promotes this perpetual shield bash fighting. I feel this needs a remedy.

Between all of the knight’s capabilities, there should be a sense of check and balances. I haven’t completely reached a consensus in my mind over these topics, these are just some initial opinions and I would appreciate comments and suggestions.

Side note: I apologize if I should have initially posted this in the Knight Sub Section, I wanted it to generate some discussion and General Discussion has a bit more visibility. If it needs to be moved it's completely understandable, and thank you for doing so.

 

Just like old times.
Those days were the shining days of shieldbash.

 

Indeed there definitely needs to be some sort of counter to a shield bash. Before, in the older builds, you could counter a shield bash with a slash but whenever I try the same technique now I still get bashed ;'(

 

Get some proper yomi all up in this bitch.

Slash > Bash > Jab > Slash sounds about right.

 

What I'm leaning towards after reading the comments:

Maybe when a full slash and a shield bash collide, the damage is blocked and the attacker is bounced back a bit, but the attacker suffers no stun? That was you can recover quickly and continue the fight without feeling you've been overly penalized for trying to full slash. A basic block against a full slash would still cause a defender to break his stance. Shield bashing a jab or moving opponent would still cause that awesome bash/stun effect we all love.

Also as Blueluigi said, significantly narrowing the window of opportunity on a shield bash.

Sometimes these shield bashing contests between knights feel like Kag: Pinball Version.

Hop bashing and spamming I don't have any ideas on.

Edit: I just read Contrary's post and I really like that too. Rock, paper, scissor approach. I'm conflicted.

 

Shield bashing is there to help counter slash dominated fighting. I do agree spamming it is OP but i still think, if time correctly, it should stop a full slash. Before it was just two knights charging slashes bouncing back and forth waiting for the other to make the first last mistake. (with good players this can take a long time) Besides I have had times when shield bashing just plain fails me but then again I don't spam it and I go for the one well timed bash. Boxpipe and I have a close play style and when him and I came head to head before shield bashing it was just horrible, It took us forever to kill the other due to us both charging and waiting.

Edit: Besides slashing is slow, it shouldn't be done in that close quarters anyway, It makes sense to me...But thats just me.

 

I want to start the KAG space program with my shield.

 

Shield-bashing doesn't really take skill anymore, I find just hitting someone with your shield bashes them, before it only really worked on slashes, now your you just jump on and push people for ages (as said) with your shield, I find the easiest way to counter this is just to crouch.

If you come up to someone that you know shield bashes at the time, just crouch and then when he goes through jab him. I love telling noobs to bash me then they ask why it isn't working. :P

 

Bashing has never taken skill. In my opinion, just jump and shield in their direction.

 

Video I posted in testing a while ago:

 

Yeah, like in the vid Contrary posted, shield bashes should not be like that. I like the idea of triangle combat, but it should always be overcome by skill, so really it would be a circle, with skill being in the middle and the three attack forms on the outside.

While the Archer Balance thread was still hot I never heard anyone say it should go in the Archer Sub forum, so I don't see why it can't stay here.

Its not like moving it there will keep Kouji from moderating it anyway. (*poke* :p) // :P

 

shield can be op but they are prone to lag very much, as you cannot do split second blocks of arrows or bombs thanks to the lag. the way i see it both sides should take a bit of stun

 

Here's an idea, just add a stamina bar and make raising your shield take a small chunk out of that. Doing it in combination with other actions, like jumping, takes a much larger chunk out of it. After a while of disuse, the bar starts regaining energy.

Yes, shield bash is still OP, but you can only use it a few times before tiring yourself out. You better hope there aren't any archers on the other team to shoot you now that you spent all your stamina and can't raise your shield again to defend yourself while retreating.

 

I don't think that would work. It just doesn't seem like a good idea to me. For one it make archers to good against knights, they could only shield a few arrows before being chain shot over and over. Also limiting a knights movement/fighting capabilities by limiting the amount actions they can have is just a horrible nerf to any class.

You could possibly add a timing check, where you need to shield maybe .5 seconds before you hit or something. I think this would cause more issues and not really be possibly. There server would need to do a lot of checks besides what the velocity check that it does now. I don't really know, This isn't a problem with an easy answer. In the end shield bashing is changeable server side so server owners can make their own changes to it as they wish.