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Something is ending but does something begin?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Fernegulus, Jun 21, 2015.

Mods: Hella, Lieber, Reudh, toffie0
Page 1 of 3
  1. Fernegulus

    Fernegulus Bison Rider

    Messages:
    400
    So uh,
    And soon after that all the BDs actually disappeared from the server list.

    So I guess we should be at least concerned, Leo quitting is a critical hit for KAG, not only the community. So will it really die out completly? Nothing more to say right now... Let's hope Leo himself clarifies some of this.
     
    Fernegulus, Jun 21, 2015
    #1
  2. Fuzzle

    Fuzzle Grand Grumbler

    Messages:
    297
    Ahem. In spite of ~13 updates since 1180 the amount of balance-, bug- and consistency-issues haven't changed much. Considering THD only implements new shizz' and half-hearted (worthless, mostly "balance") "fixes", and never fixes their poorly written scripts, the reason behind is quite obvious. They could've invested in crash-fixes, yet shizz' such as mechanisms has been prioritized.

    Verz left, now Leo and BD ..
    » KAG's life, but fuck THD: They've ruined mine. «
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2015
    Fuzzle, Jun 21, 2015
    #2
    zerd and PUNK123 like this.
  3. Leo

    Leo Haxor

    Messages:
    503
    I quit yes, for this:

    Code:
    [07:46:57] Noice6 bombed Gandalf_The_Gay8
[07:47:02] Drentey_ was shot with an arrow by sandshark
[07:47:05] WARNING: API call failed: cURL Error in putStatus(): Timeout was reached
[07:47:17] COLLAPSE by PsychoTubbies (size 5 blocks)
[07:47:21] peat318 slew sandshark
[07:47:24] WARNING: A call to update the server list API is showing as still in progress when we were ready to make the next call
[07:47:24] sAPIClientStatus.size() is 5
[07:47:24]  < Nuking the list as a stop-gap >
[07:47:29] Annibal770 slew Haxhi
    and for this:
    Code:
    [16:47:35] [-WarJacK-] : ......
[16:47:35] -1
[16:47:38] Cap__Schettino slew stoppable2
[16:47:41] MOXcz slew AT-AT8
[16:47:43] SirNexus was shot with an arrow by FUQ
[16:47:46] WARNING: A call to update the server list API is showing as still in progress when we were ready to make the next call
[16:47:46] sAPIClientStatus.size() is 6
[16:47:46]  < Nuking the list as a stop-gap >
    and for this:
    Code:
    [22:34:47] [BarsukEughen555] : Давненько Я не играл, однако
[22:34:47] -1
[22:34:48] dzuci was shot with an arrow by malfunction
[22:34:51] A_Jax was shot with an arrow by Shen2
[22:34:54] WARNING: API call failed: cURL Error in putMinimapPNG(): Failed binding local connection end
[22:34:55] ALL_WE_NEED_IS_LOVE was shot with an arrow by Coroz
[22:34:55] [BarsukEughen555] : Ну да
[22:34:55] -1
[22:35:00] SirLoading slew Coroz
[22:35:01] Spirits-Reaper bombed Shen2
[22:35:01] [BarsukEughen555] : Там не все нубы
[22:35:01] -1
[22:35:03] SirLoading burned to death with the help of andromat
[22:35:07] andromat slew Dollparts
[22:35:08] WARNING: A call to update the server list API is showing as still in progress when we were ready to make the next call
[22:35:08] sAPIClientStatus.size() is 5
[22:35:08]  < Nuking the list as a stop-gap >
    and for this:
    Code:
    [14:57:10] Next map: Maps/CTF/Community/EjMap.png
[14:57:10] LOADING PNG MAP Maps/CTF/Community/EjMap.png
[14:57:11] PACKET_SNAPSHOT_ONCE_ADVANCED_COMMAND: object destroyed 7063
[14:57:11] PACKET_SNAPSHOT_ONCE_ADVANCED_COMMAND: object destroyed 7063
[14:57:11] PACKET_SNAPSHOT_ONCE_ADVANCED_COMMAND: object destroyed 7063
[14:57:11] PACKET_SNAPSHOT_ONCE_ADVANCED_COMMAND: object destroyed 7063
[14:57:11] PACKET_SNAPSHOT_ONCE_ADVANCED_COMMAND: object destroyed 7063
[14:57:11] WARNING: A call to update the server list API is showing as still in progress when we were ready to make the next call
[14:57:11] sAPIClientStatus.size() is 5
[14:57:11]  < Nuking the list as a stop-gap >
[14:57:11] PACKET_SNAPSHOT_ONCE_ADVANCED_COMMAND: object destroyed 7063
[14:57:11] PACKET_SNAPSHOT_ONCE_ADVANCED_COMMAND: object destroyed 7115
[14:57:11] PACKET_SNAPSHOT_ONCE_ADVANCED_COMMAND: object destroyed 7063
[14:57:11] PACKET_SNAPSHOT_ONCE_ADVANCED_COMMAND: object destroyed 7063
[14:57:11] PACKET_SNAPSHOT_ONCE_ADVANCED_COMMAND: object destroyed 7063
[14:57:11] PACKET_SNAPSHOT_ONCE_ADVANCED_COMMAND: object destroyed 7063
[14:57:11] PACKET_SNAPSHOT_ONCE_ADVANCED_COMMAND: object destroyed 7063
[14:57:11] PACKET_SNAPSHOT_ONCE_ADVANCED_COMMAND: object destroyed 7063
[14:57:11] PACKET_SNAPSHOT_ONCE_ADVANCED_COMMAND: object destroyed 7063
[14:57:11] PACKET_SNAPSHOT_ONCE_ADVANCED_COMMAND: object destroyed 7063
[14:57:11] PACKET_SNAPSHOT_ONCE_ADVANCED_COMMAND: object destroyed 7063
[14:57:11] PACKET_SNAPSHOT_ONCE_ADVANCED_COMMAND: object destroyed 7063
[14:57:11] PACKET_SNAPSHOT_ONCE_ADVANCED_COMMAND: object destroyed 7063
[14:57:11] WARNING: A call to update the server list API is showing as still in progress when we were ready to make the next call
[14:57:11] sAPIClientStatus.size() is 5
[14:57:11]  < Nuking the list as a stop-gap >
[14:57:11] PACKET_SNAPSHOT_ONCE_ADVANCED_COMMAND: object destroyed 7063
[14:57:11] PACKET_SNAPSHOT_ONCE_ADVANCED_COMMAND: object destroyed 7063
[14:57:11] Restarting rules script: Rules/CTF/Scripts/CTF.as
    and for more....
     
    Leo, Jun 21, 2015
    #3
    Stevedog, CapitanForceX, zerd and 6 others like this.
  4. Mazey

    Mazey Haxor Global Moderator Forum Moderator Staff Alumni Donator Official Server Admin

    Messages:
    1,914
    Yeah because the devs totally made the mechanisms themselves /s
     
    Mazey, Jun 21, 2015
    #4
  5. Fuzzle

    Fuzzle Grand Grumbler

    Messages:
    297
    "Invested" in them, bitch.
     
    Fuzzle, Jun 21, 2015
    #5
    kodysch and PUNK123 like this.
  6. PUNK123

    PUNK123 Hella wRangler Staff Alumni Tester

    Messages:
    1,275
    Didnt they hire skinney to do it as a trial thing. Does that not make him a developer of kag's mechanics? Eitherway they couldve gotten someone to fix the api instead.
     
    PUNK123, Jun 21, 2015
    #6
  7. Asu

    Asu THD Team THD Team Forum Moderator

    Messages:
    1,580
    I have a folder on my desktop with pieces of code. I've created a folder specifically for the API client stuff geti sent me, named "Cancer bullshit". And yes this is true.

    It is 2000 lines long and is full of C-ish bullshit applied onto a C++ program.
    Code:
    mem->memory = (char*)realloc(mem->memory, mem->size + realsize + 1);
    (*I->do->not)realloc(*know->if, *you->care->too->much->about->such->things).

    C, C everywhere.
    I would have given a shot at rewriting it but it's super long so if I'm doing it I will need an entire week. Another problem is that I don't have the other sources and geti will not give them so i'll need to make some fake includes for other stuff.

    Edit : To be clear, I'm not bashing Geti. He didn't write this API client and he most likely feels like me, this is just super long to rewrite and not a inch pleasant.
    --- Double Post Merged, Jun 21, 2015 ---
    Using KScript to fix this would work but would be slightly a pain in the ass. As far I know you only can connect to a server at the time using KScript so using one KScript instance at the time for that is... you see...
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2015
    Asu, Jun 21, 2015
    #7
    jimmyzoudcba, zerd, Chrispin and 4 others like this.
  8. ParaLogia

    ParaLogia tired Administrator Global Moderator Forum Moderator Tester Official Server Admin

    Messages:
    1,133
    Deleted off-topic posts.

    Not entirely sure what the point of this thread is, but I'll let it play out for now.
     
    ParaLogia, Jun 21, 2015
    #8
    Tern and Fernegulus like this.
  9. bunnie

    bunnie Haxor Tester

    Messages:
    1,319
    point of this thread is probably place for new and cool servers. Possibly better servers. You know, it was boring when top 10 played servers were officials and BDs...

    Zen laboratories will make some cool servers soon.
     
    bunnie, Jun 21, 2015
    #9
    SirDangalang likes this.
  10. Geti

    Geti Please avoid PMing me (poke a mod instead) THD Team Administrator Global Moderator

    Messages:
    3,730
    Shame to see @Leo going. Especially after the game's just got such a spike in players.

    Re: "lol no real fixes" - game's been done for years, guys. I've talked about this before but while we've got the interns working on some exciting "new" stuff, MM and I have been working on it for too long already, and any "big" changes we want to make will always be resisted by the community, as you've proven time and time again.
    THD in general has supported this game actively since 2011, and will continue to provide fixes and servers as needed, but I'm not going to whittle my life away making minor changes on this game. MM's only activity in the repo in the last year has been when something breaks due to engine changes, so I assume he feels the same.
    Neither of us are a fan of the indie "rework your project once a year until the community around it all leaves or dies of old age, then starve" model.

    Re: API Client - I'd love to have it fixed, but as AsuMagic says, it's not a trivial fix. I'm not optimistic that it'll ever be rewritten for KAG (no offense to AsuMagic, but its a big job, and an inexperienced programmer taking it was the reason it ended up like it did in the first place; one of our sysadmins wrote it a very long time ago).
    We've actually offered a few people the job, but once they realise the requirements (no boost, same C++-side API (or minimal changes), C++98) they're generally pretty unenthusiastic as well.

    Re: new servers - bring them on. Been happy to see the modding scene pique up a little bit, so maybe we'll see a rise there with more of the players spread around by the lack of BD servers. Honestly the official servers can take most/all of the vanilla KAG traffic, so I'd love to see that.
     
    Geti, Jun 22, 2015
    #10
    Asu likes this.
  11. Fuzzle

    Fuzzle Grand Grumbler

    Messages:
    297
    Come on .. Post-1180? You've pushed controversial shizz' everywhere, while you could've have fixed issues, and everyone would've been satisfied.
     
    Fuzzle, Jun 22, 2015
    #11
    zerd and PUNK123 like this.
  12. Geti

    Geti Please avoid PMing me (poke a mod instead) THD Team Administrator Global Moderator

    Messages:
    3,730
    The single big controversial thing that's been done in there is archer shotgun.

    Everything else that's been complained about has been simultaneously requested by some other large party of people (slash cancelling, boulders, getting into crates, stacking food, infinite glide, jabs, knight drills). The majority of "big" changes have been to the scripting API, such as adding tilemap modding, saving/loading maps, saving/loading images, better string ops), or have been content additions (mechanisms), and there have been something like 200 bug fixes in that period.

    Seriously, go through the changelogs and find me a list of "controversial shizz".

    Alternatively, I welcome any direction on how to get "everyone satisfied".
    It's not as easy as just pushing changes you think "should work" and telling everyone "suck it up" when they complain.
     
    Geti, Jun 22, 2015
    #12
    Asu, DatNobby, Tern and 1 other person like this.
  13. Auburn

    Auburn Prepare Yourself! Forum Moderator Staff Alumni Donator Tester
    1. SharSharShar - [SHARK]

    Messages:
    734
    I think really the only thing to do to make everyone happy is make sure the API doesn't bork itself, and maybe try to optimize the game a little. This is where I have to laugh at Leo's "superior servers" because by the time any decent server (not a local host) starts experiencing any issues, my client is already moving at 2 fps, so did server hardware actually matter to me? (or anyone on a semi-low spec computer?) no. But seriously, this shit needs to get optimized, I can run most 3D games at a higher FPS than KAG
     
    Auburn, Jun 22, 2015
    #13
    Bammboo, Snake19, DatNobby and 3 others like this.
  14. Geti

    Geti Please avoid PMing me (poke a mod instead) THD Team Administrator Global Moderator

    Messages:
    3,730
    Reason the game is unlikely to ever run "fast" is that everything's in scripts; the engine-side stuff is certainly not optimised but considering how many scripts depend on it we cant make wide-spread breaking changes to the scripting API and so we only get so much wiggle room for changing the root cause of the problem; which is shonky 7+ year old "MM learns C++" architecture underpinning it all. We'll be looking to take up new engines/framework code after TR, but there's only so much that can be done this late in KAG's development - there's not some small bottleneck, its just uniformly slow all over.

    Again, the KAG APIClient stuff (the cause of the "dreaded list error") is something I'd love to have fixed but if it was a small job, it would already have been done. I'm repeating myself at this point though.
     
    Geti, Jun 22, 2015
    #14
    Asu and AmestriStephen like this.
  15. suspect

    suspect Catapult Fodder

    Messages:
    28
    good riddance I hated 32 slot servers anyways :^)
     
    suspect, Jun 22, 2015
    #15
    kittycity, Havelock and EhRa like this.
  16. Tern

    Tern Quickfish Donator Official Server Admin
    1. Zen - [Zen] - (Invite Only)

    Messages:
    175
    Leo hosted a lot more than 32 slot public servers
     
    Tern, Jun 22, 2015
    #16
  17. Asu

    Asu THD Team THD Team Forum Moderator

    Messages:
    1,580
    Zen Laboratories should be running a bunch of servers soon, by the way.
    I'm working on an alternative for KScript designed to be lighter and to support Angelscript modding, the whole written with C++/SFML/Angelscript. What would be the features? Multiple connections at once, principally. This means you would be able to connect it to multiple servers at once. And a master community server could handle all servers wishing it (which would require quite a bit of security though).
    Now let's get to the interesting stuff : I could make a workaround to the API crash issue, which IIRC did work for Leo when he did this manually (sv_register = false before map switches), since the API crash issue mostly happens on next map, and this fix could be applied to all servers registering to my program's list. Maybe this will find an use for my VPS I'm not using currently, ehe.

    Edit :
    Yes, server hardware does matter. Have you ever seen tomato bombs? Those are due to server-side tick lag.
    Another reason of why your other 3D games are running better is that, to be a bit rough, not obviously drawing a frame only when the CPU has processed one, while KAG does (The only thing I noticed being smoother when uncapping FPS is the chat bubble, ahah). This is why KAG will not run at great differences between 30fps and 60fps while other games would.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2015
    Asu, Jun 22, 2015
    #17
  18. suspect

    suspect Catapult Fodder

    Messages:
    28
    I am aware, it's just that his 32 slot blackdeath CTF servers were on the more popular side
     
    suspect, Jun 22, 2015
    #18
  19. Mazey

    Mazey Haxor Global Moderator Forum Moderator Staff Alumni Donator Official Server Admin

    Messages:
    1,914
    I thought you meant invested time, bitch. It's not like they paid Skinney with their whole bank account, they probably could've "invested" in other people, but as Geti said people don't want to take the job to completely recode the API stuff.
    Also don't "fuck THD" so much, they could've abandoned it a long time ago, but Geti is really active and tries to community as much as possible, investing in things like mechanisms which don't even impact the game that much. Go fix KAG instead of throwing bullshit like that everything after build 1180 was "controversial shizz'". I bet you'll get paid if you recode the API
     
    Mazey, Jun 22, 2015
    #19
    PanduhsFTW likes this.
  20. PUNK123

    PUNK123 Hella wRangler Staff Alumni Tester

    Messages:
    1,275
    Just because he does fixes out of the goodness of his :heart: does not mean he has to, and any assertion on the contrary makes you look like an ass
     
    PUNK123, Jun 22, 2015
    #20
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