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Why I believe KAB has received so much negative feedback.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Fucu, Jul 14, 2013.

  1. Fucu

    Fucu Ballista Bolt Thrower

    Messages:
    33
    First of all, I do not believe that KAB is bad in any way, nor am I here to say that classic is superior and scrap KAB all together because that's just silly. I just want to try my best at explaining why I believe that so many classic players are complaining about beta.
    To be quite honest, I am jealous of the players that enjoy beta. I've tried my best to enjoy it as much as many of them do, or work up the courage to say that KAB is better than classic, which in some ways it is, but I don't feel adamant classic players will ever enjoy it. I know the main response to these type of comments is "Beta is beta" or "Beta is always subject to change" or even, my favorite, "Deal with it," or "Respect the developers, they are trying their best," as I'm sure they are. I'm 100% sure that the development team is working as hard as they can to create a wonderful game that they envisioned. I don't have a problem with any of that. They are welcome to do what they want with something they have created. Will it be successful? It's hard to tell, but I don't see classic players playing beta as much as classic.
    Perhaps classic players are blind to the fact that beta is good and we're all just delusional, but I really doubt that's the case. We're gamers, just like the rest of you. We care about this game and we just want the best for it. Some of us are selfish and just want what we want, but that's not always the case. I completely understand why people like beta and I'm fine with it's existence.
    The world of development has changed so much in the past few years. One thing that Minecraft has definitely done is bring on a whole new development process. It's a community built process. At the same time it may be good, I can understand that it's a double-edged sword. On one hand, you have this community constantly giving you feedback, alpha and beta testing your game for you, pointing out all the bugs, and hoping that it will succeed. On the other hand, you have so many suggestions and ideas buzzed around that it can be overwhelming at times. Nothing you do will ever come without criticisms, good and bad. For this reason, I can understand why it's so hard to please everyone.
    Promises of bison, ballistas, fire arrows, and so much more excited me and I'm sure many others. Classic was already so amazing and there was STILL MORE coming. Then beta came and that all changed to resentment. Notched climbing, movement, and almost everything from classic, removed or tweaked. Personally, I don't feel betrayed, but disappointed. Not in the developers, but my own cynicism. I'm sure I don't speak for all classic players but perhaps some. I'm still trying to figure out what else to say as I had a lot more to say, so some of this will be edited in the future when I can put it more eloquently.
     
  2. Toy

    Toy Ballista Bolt Thrower

    Messages:
    91
    I agree with all you said. Beta changed the game system. System that we fell in love for. I think all those features (workshops, animals...) should be added to classic, turning it into beta stage. There are some things that are really useful, like stun when jabbing shield, but others are horrible.
     
    16th likes this.
  3. Monsteri

    Monsteri Slower Than Light Tester

    Messages:
    1,916
    So basically you feel like people don't like beta because it's not classic but you're not sure? Well it seems to be pretty much like that, and I have no idea why, as it was clear from start to finish that the game would turn out completely different. Or what were people thinking they would get? Classic KAG that has fire? Eugh, seeing those rants make me wanna punch my monitor.
    You really think it's feasible for anyone to develop 2 games at the same time, the other being developed on a horrible prototype engine, that is basically a mesh of three different games since 2010? And I'd love it if you could ACTUALLY point out what features are horrible.
     
  4. Toy

    Toy Ballista Bolt Thrower

    Messages:
    91
    Movement, climbing, bombjumping, knight duels, playing as builder lost fun... That's for me. All we know you love BETA, so you don't agree with me.
     
  5. Monsteri

    Monsteri Slower Than Light Tester

    Messages:
    1,916
    Alright, now if you could proceed into breaking those things down to details, as in why exactly they are bad, and how they are better in classic, then we can have a discussion.
     
  6. Toy

    Toy Ballista Bolt Thrower

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    91
    If you can't see why, I'm sorry.
     
    PadaV4 likes this.
  7. Fucu

    Fucu Ballista Bolt Thrower

    Messages:
    33
    You're telling me we were supposed to expect that notched climbing, movement, and most features that were in classic were going to be taken out or overhauled? That seems rather silly. Sure things were subject to change and that's fine, but there is no way of knowing what was next. I played the game before buying it, loved what I saw, and was genuinely excited for the upcoming features. I had no clue that the final product would look anything like that. If you saw that the entire game was going to change, good for you as I'm sure you're very happy. Enjoy beta for the rest of us, as I want to see this game succeed.
     
    Noburu, 16th, PadaV4 and 1 other person like this.
  8. Monsteri

    Monsteri Slower Than Light Tester

    Messages:
    1,916
    Notch climbing was a bug that made structures just uninteresting stone blobs with door ladders that only your team could use. Removing such a team-only route was a major improvement. And yes, all the dev blogs have talked about these features, changes to e.g. catapults, combat, etc. I can't see how the changes were a surprise to anyone.

    One thing I agree with the h4t3rz is the twerky movement, but Geti's looking to fix it so it's not a large concern. I like the increased speed of gameplay though. It adds human error, skill cap and promotes offense. Most serious games in classic are so slow it's impossible to even make any mistakes, the only skill is lag compensation.
     
  9. eamono

    eamono Arsonist

    Messages:
    498
    So if other people don't share your opinion they're blind idiots?

    Movement - So much faster and is feels more fluid, and now vertical movement is easier, which brings me to...

    Climbing - Wall jumping was broken, it was too easy, it made it too easy to make a team-only barrier, and was just not fun after a while

    Bombjumping - bombjumping is still very useful, and is easy once you get the hang of it. It won't launch you halfway across the map any more but will easily get you out of a tough situation or over a pit/small tower

    Knight Duels: It definitely needs work but it's still fun, just not the same as beta

    Builder: I agree, playing builder all game is shit, they need a major overhaul. I think builders should get satchels and knights get a new bomb to replace it (perhaps a low-damage sticky bomb? or something that makes a temporary "slow trap" for enemies? lol my ideas are shit)
     
    Yokomuri likes this.
  10. Orso

    Orso Ballista Bolt Thrower Official Server Admin

    Messages:
    81
    Yeah may be the rapidity of the game creat more mistakes, but I thing the zoom is too high, even if the game is harder because the character are speeder, It 'll be a good idea to see farther.
     
  11. whatever1works

    whatever1works Drill Rusher

    Messages:
    42
    I like a lot of things in KAB (esp since the update) but here are my probs:
    • Builders are just piss weak.. like seriously I CANNOT INFLICT ANY DAMAGE... so now, a 0.5 heart archer can kill me at 3 hearts, also, I HATE this thing about not being able to recover resources... no more epic bases, esp since halls came along
    • Movement is soo jerky, and slash jumping is impossible (50% of time it doesn't work), so often it takes me ages to get over anything greater than 4 blocks (ive been trying to get it right for a while now, and.. no)
     
  12. Toy

    Toy Ballista Bolt Thrower

    Messages:
    91
    I was too lazy. And if you're going to explain my opinion, do it right, because you wrote the other side of opinion; your opinion.
     
    16th likes this.
  13. eamono

    eamono Arsonist

    Messages:
    498



    lol i wasn't explainging your opinion, I was just posting my opinion, and I'm not suprised that my opinion is the opposite of your opinion
     
    Toy likes this.
  14. PinXviiN

    PinXviiN Bison Rider

    Messages:
    494
    Kids kids chill the fuck out.

    For me I don't like beta as much as classic. It may got some features I like but others will ruin it. I was promised much all those months, yet I see a huge changing without even saying that they're going to do that. I'm kinda dissapointed and surprised.
     
    Sarathos and 16th like this.
  15. Geti

    Geti Please avoid PMing me (poke a mod instead) THD Team Administrator Global Moderator

    Messages:
    3,730
    I agree with your thoughts on why - we're looking for ways to help bridge the gap at the moment so that classic players will have something more familiar to ease the transition - ctf and shops.
    As monsteri said I'm working on movement at the moment to tweak it and make it more comfortable getting around since that's the main goal - we just don't think notching is an intuitive way to allow that, its very confusing for a new player and promotes vertical forts which are crap to attack and waste time going up and down.
     
    GreenRock and NinjaCell like this.
  16. MartysNaklo

    MartysNaklo Catapult Fodder

    Messages:
    12
    As someone who got into beta only recently, I've been very disappointed the first night too. What I've seen was the classic but a lot more complicated, new doors, wierd platforms, no notch climbing. It was only after I played through for a while and started to understand things I started to enjoy the new game. There are still some items I believe are too complicated and some things I hate.

    I mainly hate my pine cones disappearing for no reason. But what I am mainly disappointed by how the water is made, yes sure boats and all this stuff but what it all comes to is bunch of knights bouncing up and down in water in an akward fight, I was expecting knights unable to swim much, forcing them into epic fight on boats and thing like that.

    When it comes to enjoying the game, it's about understanding what the new features do, you don't need notch climbing and team only scalable walls because you got stone doors that are as strong as a stone block would be, so it's no longer beneficial to just build a wall let your people go over it, now they can go through it without weaking the wall by putting wooden doors in it. I was disappointed by platforms not allowing you to drop down thourgh them but now I see their potential as a one-way wall and noticing that arrows can go one way but not the other made me love them, putting them into my archer towers to let archers shoot enemies without beeing shot at. The combat was also made a bit easier, for knights, before it was just a mess where killing anyone would require you to throw a bomb at them, now you can actually fight with swords and bombs are just a bonus, that no longer is needed to be mastered to be able to play knight. New archer is fine too, though I'd like him to have some visual difference from a builder when not shooting, álso I kind of miss the charge bar, as I am not always able to hear the bow over all those bombs and people dying.

    I am still not a big fan of this war mode, I hope they will add some of the classics like CTF soon, and neither am I a fan of the maps having floating islands over a large lake, I hope that before release, there will be a option allowing maps without water. Finally I miss having resources on the beggining of the match, having to mine them greatly decreases the potential of building epic castles, right now, all it comes to usually is just a basic wooden structure housing a few workshops and that's it, only wall that protects the hall are the shields of knights not letting anyone through as the fight towards other halls.

    I believe an addition of some sort of advanced tutorial, explaining all features, uses of all blocks, what are scrolls good for and anything would help anyone new to enjoy the game a bit faster.
     
  17. Orso

    Orso Ballista Bolt Thrower Official Server Admin

    Messages:
    81
    An other thing which disapoint me it's the knights can't destroy all the srtructure they could destroy before : especially the back wall and the doors. Nevertheless I think is more relevant that knight need to slash the dirt block for destroy it.
    Finaly I think the Beta have a good future but it need a lot of modification for there is the same interest for the beta that for the classic.
     
  18. Sir_Edward

    Sir_Edward Builder Stabber

    Messages:
    22
    Unbalanced, and unpolished, but a rough diamond is better than a polished turd any day of the week. KAG Classic was a polished turd. it was clunky, buggy, and almost entirely unmoddable. the gameplay was laughably unfair, people would bomb jump half across the map, spam swings, and all sorts of buggy, unenjoyable gameplay. people will have to just deal with it or play classic to get their jollies off. I for one hate KAG Classic, and I find the beta refreshing. but its unpolished for sure, and why did they remove notch climbing, that was just plain silly.
     
    LostPix likes this.
  19. eamono

    eamono Arsonist

    Messages:
    498

    I don't consider classic to be "a polished turd". Classic is (ATM) much better then the beta, less bugs, less OP-ness, less problems in general. But classic has been abandoned by the devs, and instead of leaving it on an orphanage door-step for other people to take care of it they have built an entire room of their house dedicated to keeping it in a cage and neglecting it, despite alot of glaring issues. With the beta they plan on raising it to be a great game, and then abandoning it on an orphanage doorstep for other people to change it as they see fit when they want to make another game :)

    lol my metaphor was terrible but you get the idea
     
    Starsly, Varion and Vidar like this.
  20. LostPix

    LostPix Base Burner

    Messages:
    574
    This is like World of Warcraft syndrome all over again, people stopped liking WoW because expansions killed it and people keep bringing up Vanilla and TBC up all the time. Just deal with the fact that classic is a broken piece of shit that was meant to be a prototype of a game, every round looks the same, combat is terrible, hit detection is either hit or miss, networking is terrible and the game is hardly competitive as it's unpredictable, hardly a medieval combat game, if you can't handle the new beta version then it's your own problem because you played the same old damn game for over two years, give it a break then launch beta and you will be refreshed. Beta is also not bug free, it has its own problems and they will be fixed, it's not like devs are going to abandon it, also the beta is not a full game as of yet, it's just another stage in development cycle, a lot of things need to be done before you consider it a finished product.
     
    LolFox24, Geokinesis and Sir_Edward like this.