Concerns about the new updates regarding bombs.

Let's state a few of the changes:

1. Bombs no longer wipe out spikes.

2. Picking up an enemy bomb and throwing it will not save your teammates anymore.

3. Bombs no longer detonate other bombs in close range, and will instead each explode in turn.

How do you feel about these changes?

Number 3 bothers me the most.

 

I don't mind #1 so much, but a bomb should be able to at least take out the spike it was thrown at, and any consecutive spikes next to it.

It was nerf'd a bit too hard in my opinion.

I'd actually prefer that the spikes have damage levels, much like stone does when bombed.



There are many reasons that #3 is just plain irritating, here's one.

Many pros used the strategy of throwing 1 bomb behind a knight, and 1 bomb in front of a knight to corner the knight into an impossible position.

A simultaneous explosion would force the enemy into a favorable position for slashing.

A must have technique when fighting 3 or more knights at end game by yourself.






I really don't feel bomb jumping should be more prioritized than actual game play.

I mean, bombs blow up other bombs and make a huge explosion.

That's pretty much how they work.

 

Bomb jumping is actual gameplay, did you think it was fake gameplay? Or a minigame or something?

Why should one technique you like be more important than bomb jumping? In fact even forget bomb jumping. Bombs blowing up other bombs was terrible for a number of much more important reasons. Bombs blowing up other bombs leads to a number of really shitty deaths like when you try to throw a short fuse bomb and a derp behind you decided to toss one randomly. Boom you're dead for a bullshit reason. Bombs blowing up other bombs makes the game less predictably, therefore more random, and therefore requiring less skill.

 

What you're saying is that you would rather pander to the less competent (AKA the derps) so that they don't kill each other by accident.


Bombs should strike fear into the hearts of those that use them.

Those that can't handle the risks shouldn't use them.




Bombs blowing up other bombs was literally the most predictable part of the game.

Chaos is having to dodge 3 bombs rather than one big explosion. TOTALLY REALISTIC AND PREDICTABLE!

The current system rewards noobs that just spam bombs, hoping to get a kill.

The previous system punished that behavior.





More importantly, it fucks up 1 on 1s, and you can't fuck up on a bomb jump by yourself.


I really don't remember a single time where I ever fucked up anyone else's bomb jump, or when anyone else fucked up mine.

I keep my distance from other players when I do it, so what are you arguing here exactly?

 

That doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I have never seen an aardvark but that doesn't necessarily mean they don't exist.

The changes to bombs create a more stable gameplay environment with less possibility for certain forms of griefing. It simply removes another mechanic that encourages random gameplay and random gameplay =/= fun gameplay in my opinion. If I wanted random gameplay I'd go play Mario Party or something.You mentioned that some pros use 2 bombs to corner a knight, but I would question their status of "pro" if they need to waste 2 whole bombs to kill a single enemy player.

I think you're misrepresenting his argument a little. I don't think anybody is particularly concerned about newbies killing each other so much as newbies/griefers killing skilled players with stray troll bombs.

All that said, I do agree with #2. I thought that was a cute little feature and I am a little unhappy that it was removed. It's of no big concern to me though as it was a really situational sort of thing.

 

Spoiler

I was saying that derps could kill any player, even one so high and mighty as you. Again, read my example. You could be cooking a bomb for a close range kill when someone could randomly toss a bomb behind you. That kills you.

Why?

I'm sure this soundbyte sounds good in your head but this is extremely nonsensical. Most of the game mechanics are more predictable. Walking is more predictable. Gravity is more predictable. Why would you even say that? Bombs blowing up bombs is very unpredictable for a number of reasons:
1. The radius at which bombs will blow up other bombs is a fine line that is hard to judge.
2. Compounding 1. is the fact that bombs are often in motion very quickly, and combined with timer means its nearly impossible for someone to tell if one bomb will blow up another.
3. Bombs can be thrown instantly. Similarly to my previous example a bomb could be in front of you, with you ready to shield it. Someone could randomly poop out a bomb at your back. You die for no reason.

Even if bombs were easy to predict, bombs blowing up bombs is a bad mechanic because a person shouldn't have to guard themselves from the attacks of their allies as well as their enemies.

How is having to dodge 3 separate bombs worse than not having any opportunity to dodge because the "one big explosion" is hitting you from both sides at the same time.

How so? Bombs blowing up other bombs reward spam because it's harder to predict when they'll explode, lowering the valuable of timing and aim since its place and time of explosion is less in your control.

How?

Why is this a relevant point? No one claimed it did.

Just because you don't remember it happening doesn't mean it never happens or that it isn't important. It's happened to me, it's happened to Rayne, it's happened to a number of people.

Again, you are not the only player who is important. What this boils down to is that bombs blowing up other bombs affects players unfairly by ruining their bomb throws/jumps or even killing them for the actions of their teammates, for factors they can't always control or account for.

edit: ninja'd by Guro.

 

Still not seeing how it was more random before than it is now.

Like I said, a guy throws 3 bombs next to each other. Watching them blow up in turn is laughable, unrealistic, and furthermore, chaotic.

It simply doesn't make sense to have them not blow up simultaneously.

Last time I checked, mario party was turn based.

You will not win an argument claiming that it was more random under the other system.
It simply wasn't.

Also, these troll bombs?
I'm supposed to believe that argument from not 1, but 2 guards?
Come on guys, you're supposedly moderating the game.

Let's make this simpler to understand.
Making bombs not detonate each other is almost as ludicrous as making a bomb not be able to damage the bomb thrower.
If you were to do the later, it would destroy the game for me.

Contrary, I know you spend your time as an archer.
Trust me as a predominant knight player when I say that close range knight combat, as well as high level fake out strategy has been crippled as a result of the change.
Furthermore, it is not fair to those who deal with this situation often in close range combat.
You bomb jump maybe 4 to 5 times tops every game?
Compared to a knight that has a low ball number of 100 close combat situations every game?
Literally no more than 1% of your time is spent bombjumping, whereas a good knight should spend about 30% of his time fighting in close combat.
In terms of gameplay alone, this change affects a huge chunk of how I and many other players play the game.



I'm saying there's a better answer out there.
The change solves your problem, but it creates so many others.

Please reconsider.
</br>--- merged: Aug 31, 2012 6:43 AM ---</br>
Oh, and I forgot to add:

Is your enter broken or something? You don't need space between every sentence. I clicked some backspace for you. - jay

 

1. You're right, it's not about realism, but if you wanna go that route, a simultaneous explosion simply sounds cooler.



2. Snide comment? I'm not the one being passive aggressive here you know.



3. I don't know about you, but I see bomb jumping as something you use when you don't have access to a cata. Why waste a bomb, right?

I'm more of a frontline knight honestly. I could enter the back door if I wanted, but it's simply more pleasurable to brute force the front, and tear that hymen to shreds. Mmmmm, collapse all over it baby...



4. Your experience has been made easier, not better. There's a key difference between the two.



There is a way to block the 2 bombs, you have to jump. Don't claim it's impossible to counter this, it isn't.



Let's paint another common scenario for you, which I consider to be complete bullshit.

Two enemy knights are fighting each other. Both are holding bombs. One throws his bomb behind the other knight. The other shields towards that bomb, while still holding his own. The other knight survives while still holding his bomb, and then throws his bomb at the other knight, who is obviously shielding as well.

Stalemate.

A boring pathetic stalemate.

This eliminates the challenging and exciting fake out battles that I truly enjoy with simultaneous explosion bomb combat.

WHO ACTS FIRST?

WHO HAS BALLS OF STEEL?

These questions are rendered meaningless by the new system.

I like a challenge Rayne.

It's simply too easy to dodge bombs now.




Now I have nothing against bomb jumping, but please don't let that be your only reason to cripple high level play.

Surely there must be a better solution.

 

Once I believed that logic and reasoning would be the golden bridge to unite all mankind, that our walls could be broken down and we could reach utopia on the wings of sound arguments.

Now I don't believe anything anymore. :(

Everyone is patiently addressing your points with logic and examples, while you're replying with non-arguments like:

This is literally just saying "No no you're wrong because I say so".

 

I also very clearly said that this effects 2 bombs thrown by the same person.

Change that, and I'm very happy.

It wouldn't effect bomb jumps at all.
</br>--- merged: Aug 31, 2012 11:34 PM ---</br>

And you're bringing up chaos out of fucking nowhere. It's not chaos if you have the reflexes to dodge it.

And for the record, I don't have the best eyes in the world, which is why I use line breaks to make my posts easier for me to read.
If you wanna make fun of that, feel free to be a huge fucking douchebag.

 

I mean, it's not impossible to just wait for 1 bomb to explode, and then throw the next one.

But hey, if geti wants quick results, who am I to argue?

 

Even though it is annoying it suppose to happen. Let's just say there's a real bomb and it explodes it will set off the other bomb used by another team mate which will cause a chain reaction. In a way it needs to be fixed. The KAG team should make it were only enemy bombs should blow up other enemy bombs, because people will be happy that the team mates will not bother with eachother

 

I'm aware that a competent entomber could pull that off.

But all these questions start popping up about how the game should work at this point.

How legit is entombing as a tactic?

Is the offensive builder made more obsolete because of this change to the game?

Should knights be able to traverse an entire map when given enough time and bombs while being without the help of archers or builders regardless of the obstacles?




I'm just thinking aloud here, not really saying anything.