Classes vs. Money and KD

There's a lot to look at, so I'm going to focus (mainly) on people who are against some part of my post.

@Ratka
Gotta agree with you on their destructive capabilities. Archers ARE incredibly dangerous when used properly and successfully - their bomb arrows can blow huge openings and their fire arrows can really ruin a team's chances of winning a match.
However, you have to consider the fact that they aren't successful very often; Archers die easily. A vigilant enemy Archer with cover on a tower could easily shoot an offensive Archer with no cover to death and make him lose some incredibly expensive arrows. And if the other team is on the offensive, Archers have a hard time wading into battle, considering the fact that single well-placed slash or bomb can instakill them.

Don't know what to say to you on this. You're right - Archers are very destructive. I guess my main argument isn't so much that they're ridiculously weak as they are less fun to play. Being a Knight is very satisfying - we all know that - but unless you're burning or collapsing a base (pretty uncommon events in a long match) you're not getting a whole lot of satisfaction playing Archer, because it's very difficult to kill other players.


@Yagger
They can be trolls when they're lucky, or in numbers, which is where the "damn Archers" makes its reappearance, but in the end, they almost always need a Knight or two to distract the enemies. Where Archers really shine right now is as a support class, trolling people with their little bit of added damage. Still, when it comes down to it, Archers usually get wrecked when one guy decides to pull a bomb out, because as long as the Knight is good, they can probably throw that bomb far and accurately enough to make it impossible for Archers to run.


@Ej
I admit, I am a scoreboard whore. I find myself checking the score quite often to see how I'm doing. Data is a bit misleading when you're playing Archer though - often I can be doing really well, burning buildings (and people) and making lots of good hits, and yet my funds and KD are awful because I just never get any kills. :/

And while you might not care about balance, many people who use multiple classes (I'm not saying you don't - I don't know what classes you play) do care. As I said in the OP, it becomes pretty clear that there's a balance issue when one offensive class constantly has more funds than the other, and that's really frustrating to people who like the class that's getting the short end of the stick, like me.

 

@Monsteri while you're not incorrect, nering bomb jumping would suck lol. :( Knight is so fun right now, I really don't think it's necessary to decrease that in order to put archer in a good place. Also imo KAG doesn't work well as a team game at all, the community just doesn't support that. All throughout KAG the number one complaint I hear is "team sucks". I think you've heard me say this but the way I think about a match of KAG is that there's me and there's my goal (of taking the flag/halls) and there's all other entities- enemies, animals, and teammates which all have a similar capacity to help or hinder me in my goal. Maybe teammates will build a nice wall, maybe they'll grief. Maybe they'll back me up in a fight, maybe they'll cockblock my bomb jump. In many ways I find enemies a more dependable aid, as they consistently open their doors, trigger my mines, leave shops out in the open for me to use...

Anyways my point is that KAG simply does not function as a team game and is much better as a game that gives a lot of opportunity for team work, but does not necessarily require it. I think the game would be a lot more fun for everyone if each individual class was able to have game-changing effects, given the right player.

 

I usually farm coins more efficiently as a builder. Half the time I'm two minutes into a game and suddenly I have 500 coins, because I've been digging and placing blocks. Builder has ways to make money, as does a knight. Simplest way to remedy this is to make the archers that get kills/land hits get coins directly instead of having to go to the ground. I think that'd solve 99% of the problems mentioned in this thread so far.

 

Warning: The internet has never been a place full of correct grammar and spelling, this post is not exception.


alot of good discussions here and as someone who mainly plays archer i feel the need to add something i feel has been left out in this, now in my opinion catas in beta are a DIRECT upgrade from alpha catas and something that needs to be nerfed in my opinion about these catas is the fact that they are mid-evil tanks, it requires a massive amount of damage to take out a cata and most of the time the onlly way to get rid of a cata is to capture it your self, another thing that needs to be mentioned about archer in general is the IMMENSE usefulness in flag caping i have played a disturbingly large amount of ctf maps were the knights on our team couldn't get the flag back to base due to enemy walls and passed the flag to a freindlly archer who was able to get the flag out and back to base via grapple. This obviously indicates how archer is support even though in my opinion it shouldent. one of the problems in beta at least to me is the problem of class balance, now i dont mean one class being more powerful than another but more along the lines of helping the team to win (just a side note before i mention alpha is that i do enjoy beta more than alpha and think it is a improvement) one thing alpha did AMAZINGLY well was the need of varied classes, any team without good or decent players of each class was doomed to falure. good archers, good builders, good knights, etc. without good archers the builders and knights will be constantly out ranged, without good knights the builders and archers will get shredded to bits at close range, and without good builders (which many teams in game lack) it becomes infinitely harder to advance past enemy fortifications and in turn enemy's can advance into your territory with grater ease due to bad and sloppy fortification's. all of these are things present in alpha that helped in alpha but as this whole thread demonstraits is not present in beta. the one thing i can think of is nerfing the shield, the fact that arrows dont break a shield block can and has created the situation of one knight shielding past 3 enemy archers and not taking a half heart of damage, now haveing the shield go down after one arrow would need modification considering triple shot, now some knights might complain considering that two archers could team up on a knight and take him out, but in my experience doing so is very rare and takes extreme coordination if not complete luck, now even then it would be possible for two archers in a tower to do so to ONE knight attacking said tower but doing so offensively would be close to impossible and if you had 3 or 4 knights attacking wiht them all in one clump you would need a much larger amount of archers to defend from a larger amount of knights wich in my opinion makes sense. Again something about the triple shot would have to be changed for shield break to work and not fuck knights over so that would have to be dealt with, anyways not sure if its an actual good idea just wanted to contribute.

 

deleted and warned off-topic.
the thread is titled "Classes vs. Money and KD", not "KAG on Steam". please dont derail the discussion

 

Playing some matches with the bomb arrow buffs has made me feel it is a bit more balanced now in terms of special arrow power, taking down forts is nicely possible, now. Also a lot of people tend to forget to put blocks behind their siege weapons so it is extremely funny watching them fall off towers from lots of arrows hitting them.

 

I usually like playing archer more, but currently the game is in the state of "going knight to get more gold" for me. Basically any time i wanted to get bomb arrows, I would have to go knight to make that money.

 

Archers are good for destroying catas, setting stuff on fire, killing builders from afar.
Unless they're doing one of those, in the current state of the game, archers are hurting their team by not going knight.

Also "support" is bullshit, a knight can "support" another knight much better than an archer would.

 

Except then a knight can stab the archer, who has no defense. Why slash when a stab kills just as efficiently and much faster?

 

'xcept the knight can simply detonate the arrows fired at him by slashing. Also, yesterday I was playing an archer and there was some good knight on the enemy team. I hit him with all the arrows i shot, but couldn't kill him simply because he was constantly fed the hearts of my incompetent knights.

Archers are just being useless to their team whenever they're not using bomb / fire arrows.

Either normal arrows have to be buffed, or archer money income increased so they can get more special ammo.

 

pls nerf good players, 2 op

if i couldn't slash arrows as a knight i would get fucked over so many times due to the fact that 2+ archers in a group spamming arrows at you is already a fucking annoyance with how fast full charge is now. if the guy is so good that you somehow can't get a hit on him when he's in the middle of sword-fighting, rush up and legolas him to assist your buddies. normal arrows don't have to be buffed to make archers even more powered than they are now.

 

Well, I'm here to complain about archers. I don't like that you added grapling hook and removed dagger, which I really liked. The grapling hook also removed archer's ability to cut trees for arrows. And archers can get wherever they want using it. I also don't like that time for "quick-shot" is too short. I mean shot when the circle which appears when shooting is full, no fully charged shot or how should I call it, when the circle lights white.

I want back ,,good old archer" from alpha or early beta...

Sorry for my bad English.