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Archer changes general

Discussion in 'Balance' started by Landoo2, Oct 31, 2013.

?

should there be arrows that do more damage then just 1 heart?

  1. yes, but they should cost much

    15 vote(s)
    15.0%
  2. yes, because 4 arrows are too much to kill a knight

    38 vote(s)
    38.0%
  3. no, because archers are already overpowered

    28 vote(s)
    28.0%
  4. no, because ..... (post your reason in the thred pls)

    19 vote(s)
    19.0%
  1. Aeynia

    Aeynia Obligatory Mute Girl Donator

    Messages:
    56
    I feel like Archers are mainly a rope swinging support class and secondly a long range combatant.

    They're fantastic at dropping mines behind enemy lines, hijacking crates, and harassing builders.

    I strongly disagree. That gives them way too much utility. Bust walls, build walls, scale walls. It's too much.
     
    Saigon likes this.
  2. Saigon

    Saigon Builder Stabber

    Messages:
    76
    Wait a sec.. You might have a point! Maybe the archer isn't even supposed to fight the knight, but to harass builders and at least slow knights down! Though the stealing of things is veeeery tiny... Maybe it's the gamemode that needs a bit of tweaking?
     
  3. Aeynia

    Aeynia Obligatory Mute Girl Donator

    Messages:
    56
    Being a support class doesn't justify the RNG arrows though, haha.
    Even if Archers aren't suppose to fight Knights, it's still night on impossible to avoid them, and that's the biggest issue.
     
  4. Saigon

    Saigon Builder Stabber

    Messages:
    76
    Yeah, true... I didn't really think it through =P But yeah, if the archers somehow could just get.. Better at hitting the knights, I think the current damage is fine.
     
  5. Aeynia

    Aeynia Obligatory Mute Girl Donator

    Messages:
    56
    The infinite shield is still ridiculous, though.
     
  6. Crabmaster

    Crabmaster Bison Rider
    1. Zen Laboratories

    Messages:
    322
    Looks like this thread is quickly turning back into the extremes of unneeded changes...again...

    Merge archer and builder? Do I even need to go into detail on why this is a bad idea?

    Archers not even supposed to fight knights? Do you forget that TDM is a gamemode?

    Also avoiding knights is really easy to do with the grapples, it is all about hitting them right now...And getting behind enemy lines is useless 90% of a time while knights still do more damage when actually being there...I still wouldn't say knights are demigods, I play all 3 classes almost equally now days so I know how each feels and I can say giving knights a debuff would make a lot more people unhappy than giving archer and builder
    a buff...
     
  7. Saigon

    Saigon Builder Stabber

    Messages:
    76
    Yeah, probably true.. But -how-? That's the question we all linger on right now! It's hard to do it right!
     
  8. Crabmaster

    Crabmaster Bison Rider
    1. Zen Laboratories

    Messages:
    322
    Maybe if the devs are watching this thread they'll test out a few of the suggestions...such as the ever so slight increase in full power arrow stun range, damage increase, arrow climbing, no more slashing arrows out of the air, better stomping, etc...

    There are plenty of options, all it takes is testing them and seeing which stick!
     
  9. Aeynia

    Aeynia Obligatory Mute Girl Donator

    Messages:
    56
    Grappling is less reliable a method of dodging than you think. The hitboxes for slashing are deceivingly tall.

    On the note of TDM, what needs to happen is that the Devs need to choose one game mode to balance around. Trying to balance around everything would be impossible to do.
     
  10. Crabmaster

    Crabmaster Bison Rider
    1. Zen Laboratories

    Messages:
    322
    Looking at how the game plays currently, balance for multiple game modes isn't all that bad(unless we are talking about perfect balance)...sadly the issue is archers aren't very useful in any of the 3 main gamemodes...(good at getting flags in CTF, though...that is something)

    Also grapple is amazingly good at running away(except in water), you can use walls, trees, or even the ground infront of you. Actually yeah, jumping then grappling the ground furthest infront of you gives you a crazy boost.
     
    Saigon likes this.
  11. Monsteri

    Monsteri Slower Than Light Tester

    Messages:
    1,916
    Jesus, you are all just rambling right now. Whenever archer has enough coins for plenty bomb arrows he makes a great support class, but they need to stand on their own more. THAT IS WHY I SUGGEST:
    1,5 dmg arrows from close to mid range
    retarded RNG removed
    better stomp
     
    Bernhardt, Aeynia, Raelian and 2 others like this.
  12. Aeynia

    Aeynia Obligatory Mute Girl Donator

    Messages:
    56
    Speaking of coins, I've noticed that I never get any coins while on Archer. Are Builders the only ones that can get them these days?
     
  13. Raelian

    Raelian Bison Rider

    Messages:
    232
    I believe you get coins from gathering resources or killing opponents? And since the archer is shit at killing stuff, yeah, you get the idea.
     
  14. Auburn

    Auburn Prepare Yourself! Forum Moderator Staff Alumni Donator Tester
    1. SharSharShar - [SHARK]

    Messages:
    734
    I believe you only get coins as builder when you place blocks or build workshops. Also, killing and hurting.

    Right now, Knights and builders get the most money easily. Archers can still easily get money so long as they deal lots of damage and kill people, but they still don't get enough to get a lot of special arrows. Maybe archers should be able to gain some coins for destruction of blocks placed by the other team? If this is even possible, archers couldn't get money by griefing, and would be encouraged to use fire arrows and bomb arrows to wreck the enemy. Maybe 1 coin per block destroyed?

    I also feel like people should give a second chance to the idea of heart arrows. That idea got shot down (no pun intended (alright, I meant to say that)) really fast, and I feel like it could make archers the ultimate support class.
     
    Crabmaster likes this.
  15. Raelian

    Raelian Bison Rider

    Messages:
    232
    The heart arrows idea was shot down with good reason in my opinion. Why bother with such nonsense when simply carrying burgers/hearts around offers precise healing whenever you need it and not have to rely on some archer?

    Let's not forget that a charged shot takes time and depending on the distance it can require 3-4 seconds until your arrows reach your injured team mate (that is if the player doesn't move and you miss) plus add the time it might take for an archer player to scan the battlefield and identify the injured friendlies. At that point, given how fast combat in KAG may end, it could be too late. Also, would the arrows heal anyone that they touch? Because if they do you better hope that the archer is freaking Legolas else you might end up with a team mate that heals your foes. Which would be hilarious but yeah, doesn't seem like it would help much.

    Plus, unless the heart arrows heal more than one heart it might be useless unless you go full triple shot which takes even more time to charge.

    It just seems way easier to do damage as an archer than heal, you just have too many other variables to take into account and the pay-off seems even less worth it.
     
  16. Auburn

    Auburn Prepare Yourself! Forum Moderator Staff Alumni Donator Tester
    1. SharSharShar - [SHARK]

    Messages:
    734
    You are aware that most archers shoot from behind their knight buddies right? The arrows would probably always go through the friendly knights, and if they were made to deal damage to enemies after the arrow lost the heart, It would be win-win. friends get healed, enemy takes an arrow into an unpleasant area of their body.
     
    Crabmaster likes this.
  17. Crabmaster

    Crabmaster Bison Rider
    1. Zen Laboratories

    Messages:
    322
    Exactly what Auburn said.

    Also if the arrow hit the enemy while it still had the heart it would simply do damage and heal at the same time...so the only loss is the fact you wasted an arrow...
     
  18. Raelian

    Raelian Bison Rider

    Messages:
    232
    Even an archer would be willing to tag along behind a knight 24/7, it still takes longer to charge a shot than charge a slash. The battle could end even before archer has time to realize his knight buddy has been injured which brings it back as to why it's more efficient for the knight to just carry his own healing supplies.

    EDITED: Also I thought the heart arrows were supposed to only heal not do damage aswell. In which case, why bother with regular arrows if such things would be available? Still, I don't really see the point in making the archer the knight's personnel wet nurse when they can heal themselves just fine and more reliably.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2013
  19. Auburn

    Auburn Prepare Yourself! Forum Moderator Staff Alumni Donator Tester
    1. SharSharShar - [SHARK]

    Messages:
    734
    If a knight has a bomb in his inventory (which is >90% of the time) he can't automatically use healing items. When I go off into battle, I don't plan to get hit in the first place, which of course ends up happening, but I rarely bring food with me. Also, in CTF you can't bring burgers with you.

    we should continue this argument in the proper thread if you wish:
    https://forum.kag2d.com/threads/heart-arrows.16531/page-2
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2013
  20. Raelian

    Raelian Bison Rider

    Messages:
    232
    You can still hold F and click the heart/burger while running away. Plus that can just as easily be fixed by adding shortcut keys since a lot of people have asked for those, allowing for the quick use of items or ammo switching. I'd consider that a more useful add-on than the heart arrows since it remains more reliable still.

    As for CTF not bringing burgers, perhaps that is intentional? If so then I'd doubt they'd have a reason to add other healing methods besides hearts that are already dropping. Honestly, I don't even use burgers myself but I do gather any hearts I find, especially in RTDM.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2013