BUILD 1215 - Rebalance and Fix Central

I don't think I ever left my feedback after I tried out the new build. I love everything about the build except for a few small things. I like the jab counter attack however I got into a fight and when my opponent knew he lost he began to jab spam and ended up winning. I believe the best way to make sure jabbing is a positive part in the game is to slow them down a little bit. I also dislike how difficult it is to fight a large group of archers. There are a lot more archers in this build and with the recent nerfs to knight mobility it is increasingly difficult to take out a large group of archers. I think that the fact that they are working together is great because I know a group of knights would be scary and seem OP too, but I feel that it shouldn't be a negative part of the game. The last thing I would like to say is that builders are still a well balanced class however I think that a little more protection or damage on the battlefield would greatly help them

 

The new updates are, simply put, breaking the old mechanics because it plays very different now as when it came out on steam. The whole point of a full release is to send a simple message to the buyer: WE ARE DONE GET COMFORTABLE WITH THE MECHANICS BECAUSE THIS IS IT! Also Im not sure about this but I dont think kag has official testers(anymore?). I can assume that its just people who play the game and post their complaints on the forum.
My point on that post is that people arent getting what they originally came for. And the only thing people say to you on the forum when you dont like it, EVEN THE MODERATORS?! I mean sheas put a leash on them, theyre chasing away your audience, is; Whatever they got your money you can fuck off now. And I really hope geti and the other developers dont actually share that thought. Because I swear then they will fail in the game development bussiness.

 

@FuzzyBlueBaron is
First of all I wanna say that im suprised to get such a fair and thought out response, im certainly not used to that. But as you say; thats because people are protecting their treasure, with their limited tools may it be...

I agree that a bug free released game is certainly a rarity nowadays even 20 years ago they had patches. But I dont agree that its a rarity that the developers continue to work on it afterwards. Which is a bad move as far as i can tell because it will piss your fans off and will stagnate sales on new projects later on. Ofcourse you hear those stories about warz or dayz im not sure which one, about developers pretty much screwing their fanbase over hard. But I guess theyre pretty much fucked in the future if they ever wanna release a game again because their reputation is dead.
I can honestly say that in my experience most games that are made by decent companies(I include THD as decent company) are pretty well maintained even after release.

I agree that according to the law they couldve packed and left, put a big fuck you suckers on their front page, and go on their merry ways without worries. But as I said above; abondoning fans with unfinished products is bad for the trust bond with your fans. This is where we just differ I guess. As far as I can tell, you say that developers can do what they want, once they release the game, without Consequence. But I think that this would be bad for their future.
Sure if you plan to make one game, get rich and never show your face again, then this is a solid tactic. But seeing that geti and the gang is fresh fish in the pond I guess they wanna continue on after kag and make many more games. Unless ofcourse they are just the bug fixers MM pays to keep the game running. I can honestly say that I have no idea what the relation between geti and MM is and if they split the percentage or if MM pays them monthly wage. Im assuming that MM is the big boss.
But back on track.
The reason im saying that they pretent this is a full game, when it (even now) isnt. Even when im saying that, for example, a game like fallout 3 was a full game at the release is, very simple. Its because they are still changing core mechanics in kag. I think its really not acceptable to call your game full when youre still changing core gameplay aspects. And im not saying that my view on this is the general opinion, but its what I strongly believe. When i see full game, i expect glitches and bugs, not things like; now were gonna decrease your jump, now were gonna make it harder for you, now were gonna make it easier for you. Etc. Kag doenst allow you to settle. Which a game should, when its done.

Even through all what im saying how i feel about what theyre doing. I still forgive the developers for this deception of a full game. Not because they keep releasing updates. But because I feel like they made a bad decision, based on because they are new to the game, or because they were in serious money trouble, both reasons I have peace with. I dont think they intended to screw the fans over. Which I think explains why they keep updating after all this time.

Maybe youre right that i expect too much of indie developers. Or maybe you dont expect enough. But what I said in previous posts wasnt really to protect myself, but the people who complain that this is not the game they bought originally, I wanted to make it clear to the people, who show not a pinch of respect, for them and tell them to go away. Next time one of the people who are now telling people to fuck off and play another game, will have an aspect of the game they dont like and will get the same threatment. It will solve nothing. I think every person paying money for this game has equal rights.

Your response certainly opened more possibilites to look at this whole situation at different angles. For me and (I think) for the people who feel wronged.

Sorry for the long and maybe chaotic response :p organizing and solid sentences arent my strong suit.

 

Let me explain this in a way you might understand. There were more people who wanted these changes, than those pissed that they had done so. IE, the majority rules over a few pissed off players, that are pissed that what they had paid for is gone. A simple solution is to have a server host the old version prior to this update, and then play on that.

Plus you bitching about not getting what you paid for should go into a different topic entirely, because that's different than discussing the actual functionality behind the changes.

 

Saying someone is bitching isn't name calling.

 

It's insulting and does not help your argument in any way.

 

Maybe some builder changes in the future, devs?

 

how the fuck do builder nerfs tie into this at all is a better question. builders already have little close defense, and they can't move as fast archers or knights. any less health and frontline rushing or building turns into shit.

 

I'd prefer making drills a better builder weapon to nerfing the weakest class in KAG.

And people who say dumb stuff like "Builders R 4 def, they don't need 3 HP" are obviously people who haven't tried rushing to the frontlines to help their fellow knights. You'd be shell shocked at how quick 3 HP goes down. If I had 2 HP and died to a single knight slash I'd be shitting myself in rage. Archers can get away with it because they can escape anything w/grapple, while builders only have one defense, and that's entombing. Technically you can jump and hop around too, but any knight can copy your movements and use stabby-stab to finish you off.

 

I dont have a big problem with builders right now. I just dont like that most matches nowadays end up with many enemy tunnels and doors in your base. Most games depend on who has the most aggresive builder. I think this needs tweaking.

 

Too many games are won by really annoying tunnelers. This isn't fun for anyone. At all. It's just an arduous battle where knights sick back and randomly charge slashes hoping they'll kill the other knights while the builders spam dozens of doors. It's the most unsatisfying ending to any match, but I have no idea how this could be changed. If I were a map maker, I'd put a wall of bedrock underground in front of their base, but I don't know how players would like that. Any suggestions?

 

I don't understand what else a builder is supposed to do. They will surround themselves with whatever block necessary in order to survive. Putting bedrock won't prevent them from tunneling higher in your base. Would you prefer to have kegs and explosives the only way into your base? I think a builder that is good enough to get into your base alive should not be punished.

 

Well, here's how it worked in the old kag, before beta. I'm not saying it was better, because I vastly prefer current KAG's movement and mechanics, but here's how old kag worked.

First, knights could get over things and rekk bases, but their actual block destructive capabilities were very low.
Second, archers were used to take out incoming knights and especially builders. They didn't have many, if any block destructive abilities that I can think of. They didn't even have water arrows, fire arrows, or bomb arrows, or even a legolas shot or a grapple. They were still pretty insane though IIRC.
Third, builders were the main class used to getting into a base. A builder at the front was essential to getting to that flag and collapsing the enemy's base. Builders also had the ability to repair damaged blocks by placing new blocks on them, and it would cost less than a full block normally cost.

Builders were creation and demolition, knights were anti-player, archers were anti-knight. Knights had bombs, but no kegs, or drills, or etc. I don't even think tunnels were in alpha.



In the current version of kag, knights have a ridiculous arsenal of devastating weaponry available, including bombs, kegs, and mines. They used to have drills too, but even taking that out they still have triple the destructive power they did in classic. Archers have a ridiculous amount of power as well, and the builder is just as good with taking out enemy encampments as he used to be. Really, if you think the only way into an enemy base is tunneling, you're wrong.

I do think we could stand to have wallclimb back, since that was never OP in my opinion. The current wallclimb is underwhelming for all classes, and slash-climbing feels useless now.

 

What i think would be the best job layout for classes would be that
1) knights attack other attackers and destroy enemy structures.
2) builders defend their base and cover and protect more ground.
3) Archers protect the walls and cover knights.
In my opinion though, if it would happen like im saying, kag will be very bland and will look scripted. But I feel that this is what kag is trying to achieve. restrictions to classes.

 

It's the same as saying complaining. I am not insulting him, if I use bitching for when anyone complains. It's just how I say it, and will say it.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 29, 2014, Original Post Date: Aug 29, 2014 ---

Also we probably could have wallclimb back. What could counter balance it, is an ability to slick up your walls to keep anyone from climbing it. Sends you down right away. Then all you do is constantly have a shop that creates the substance you pour down your wall.